A question of loading...

Dear @daveyf  : As many of us I'm sure you know the Hagerman calculator  that's an old cartridge tool that explains several issues that J.Carr expanded and goes deeper than Hagerman.

As in the past threads here and in other forums everything is clear but the cartridge mistracking where Wyn measures and he was really emphatic:

"   certainly NOT on TRACKING which is demonstrably FALSE based on IM tests on tracking performance that I have incidentally performed as a function of load. "  "

All what JC developed was in order and learning white papers for any audiophile.

The  issue that's false is that  exist mistracking when more current running through the cartridge.

Any one of us can do/run a tests  with our today set up making load impedance changes ( and everything the same not touching any other parameter. ) and I'm totally sure that no one will dtect or find out a mistracking due to any of those individual load impedance changes.  

The test is not looking if the sound is better or not but if exist a mistracking or not. Obviously listening an LP tracks where we already know the today cartridge has no tracking issues.
Perhaps the only characteristic that we can detect could be that with 100 ohms or lower the SPL will goes a little lower or other characteristics not related with mistracking that is what we are looking for.

R.

The test is not looking if the sound is better or not but if exist a mistracking or not.

This is complete and utter nonsense.
In 40 years of high end audio, including distributing and retailing high end audio back in the 80’s, setting up hundrededs of high end TT’s I have NEVER had mistracking due to "incorrect" loading.

The assertion is a fantasy. If the perception is loading down has cured mistracking, the listener must have the disease known as "cloth ears". Might want to consult an ENT specialist.

atmasphere :  ""   If what you say (that loading the cartridge has no effect on the stiffness of the cantilever),... ""

that's not what I'm saying even if I did not explain it in the rigth way.

What I'm saying is what i posted:


"2   stiffness to the cartridge cantilever enough to mistracking. ""

the key in that statement is: " enough ", this is what I'm saying and in his technical words Wyn too.

Two years ago here and in the other forum I told you the same: how much current has to pass through to stiffness the cantilever enough to the cartridge mistracking?

In those oboth forums I told you that for the mistracking could happens the cartridge compliance has to change a lot of compliance units and here in the Etna/Kuzma real example you need to pass from 12cu to 7cu to be out of the ideal resonance frequency range but that does not means for sure that will be a mistracking down there.

The issue is that mistracking not that cantilever stiffness. It's you who need to prove with measures that can gives the rigth answer to that question I made it two years ago and that you never answer.

R.

The issue that's false is that exist mistracking when more current running through the cartridge.

I don't think anyone has stated that this leads directly to mistracking.

The issue is that mistracking not that cantilever stiffness. It's you who need to prove with measures that can gives the rigth answer to that question I made it two years ago and that you never answer.

That is probably because I never stated anything as you seem to be implying here. I think this is probably because I use English as my main language and you don't; this apparently has resulted on a misunderstanding on your part.

What I *have* stated is that loading affects the stiffness of the cantilever. And further, that this could affect its ability to trace high frequencies. But I can see that this statement can really be misinterpreted. Note the use of the conditional 'could' in the sentence, as well as the rather ambiguous 'high frequencies'.


So let me put this another way. Most cartridges easily go to 40 KHz, I've measured this by cutting signals that high on my lathe and playing them back. Now we know that loading down the cartridge makes the cantilever stiffer. Are you saying that if the cantilever were ***easier*** to move, that it was less stiff, that it would not trace high frequencies as well? If the answer is 'no' then you have to accept that if you make it stiffer, at some point (maybe well out of the audio band) the ability to trace higher frequencies might not be as good.

Now the other aspect of cantilever stiffness is the mechanical resonance that the arm/cartridge compliance system exhibits. Making the cantilever stiffer is another way of saying that you reduced its compliance. Are you saying that by reducing the compliance of the cartridge that such will have no effect on the mechanical resonance? If no, then you accept that the mechanical resonance is affected by the compliance of the cartridge.

In 2018 thread where wyn posted and before the first wyn post you posted not one but twice:

""" When you load at a very low value (like less than 100 ohms) its possible to reduce the cartridge output and also decrease high frequency tracking abilities. ( Btw, wyn runs his mandake at 60 ohms and performs fabolous. Obviously no tracking issues. )


"" the cartridge is asked to perform more work as it has to drive the lower resistance. This makes the cartridge cantilever stiffer and less able to track higher frequencies. This is why the resistor can act as a tone control. ""


Curious that in that thread that after the first wyn post there you left alone almarg ( who was supporting you. ) and you did not post nothing again about that cartridge tracking issues not even when wyn posted was FALSE because he measured.

In the other side and in the Etna/Kuzma resonance frequency it needs 3 compliance unit to change its frequency resonance and instead of 12cu we need 10cu. Again how much current is need it to happens that?

R.