Best cost no object tube phono

atmasphere : "  then sit down and shut up "

Whom do you think you are? you are only another agon member and nothing more.

""   if you can't get out there and show the rest of us how its done ""

It's not me who needs to show it but you that are an audio manufacturer and I know you can't do it because you have not the adequated knowledge levels with SS designs. I posted that exist, at least , two humble audiophiles that their modifications to your unit at the SS input stage outperformed your design easily ! !   Go figure: just audiophiles ! ! 

You live in the average audio world and nothing more and your frustration to can't aspire to be at the very top with names as FM Acoustics and the like is what makes you post again and again against me but you know what:

the frustrated man is you not me. Every time you do the same against me you make my day because I just confirm that your frustration levels goes high and high.

This is a free forum but perhaps the best you can do is not read my posts and this way you will not distress that always is very bad for your health. Of course that you always can return " for more ".

R.

Why don't you both stop this infantile nonsense ? Let us continue the discussion.

It's not me who needs to show it but you that are an audio manufacturer and I know you can't do it because you have not the adequated knowledge levels with SS designs.

So I've been making all tube preamps for over 30 years, with two patents in that field, just got another patent a year ago in the field of class D amplifiers, which generally speaking are solid state and employ opamps :)  ... We're right now building a run of our beta production class D amps, which are not based on anyone else's design or modules. Just so you know, there's quite a bit of math that goes into making something like that work properly (google 'oscillation criteria'), far more than building a solid state phono section and you're trying to say that you know what knowledge I possess and what I don't. Sheesh.

@inna

Let us continue the discussion.

This thread is about tube phono sections, right? Not a defunct 3160 solid state thingy that no-one can get or has ever seen, right? I do high end audio because I like it, and not for any other reason- that's why I'm here. I'm fine with people not agreeing with me- you and I have not seen eye to eye in the past apparently; that sort of thing is normal on the web. Unlike Raul you don't seem to derail threads on a regular basis or make the thread all about you. But Raul makes false statements, he makes personal attacks and if you don't call him out, other people might think that what he says is real.


Do you think his misinformation should go uncorrected? Because we can do that, but this thread won't be about tube phono sections anymore...

Dear @inna : You are rigth but I was not who started but him who attack me telling: take your trolling.... and many other things.

I have a voice too so I need it to gave an anwser.

Btw, atmasphere I don’t care about class D amps. I was very specific about: design of SS phonolinepreamps. Come on 2 audiophiles beats you in your own design in that SS first gain stage and your next statement is false:

" no-one .... or has ever seen, right? "

well you are wrong you only need to read my response to syntax by coincidence one of the gentlemans that beats your design is an owner of the Essential and an Agoner too. Btw, no misinformation from me but you ! !  Tha's why I need to post about.
Never mind and as I said please don’t read my posts or not post refering tome. Peace.

R.

Btw, atmasphere I don’t care about class D amps. I was very specific about: design of SS phonolinepreamps.

Of course you don't - that would not help your argument. The bigger point here is the need to be right for the sake of it, rather than being factual. While you may 'not care about class D amps' the simple fact that we can make one that is of our own design, and that we can get a patent in the field, is enough for anyone to know that if we wanted to make a solid state phono section, we could and with ease.

*****************Back on track:

One advantage tubes have over solid state in phono preamps in particular is that of overload due to the electrical resonance caused by the cartridge and tonearm cable (inductance and capacitance in parallel; please ask me if you don't know what I'm talking about here). In solid state circuits, if this resonance goes into excitation (oscillation) the resulting RFI can overload the input circuit. This can result in a tick or a pop, and is part of the reason that many people think that ticks and pops are endemic to LPs. 


But when a producer makes a recording on LP, he gets what is called a 'test pressing' which he listens to to see if its alright. A form accompanies the test pressing, and the producer has to sign off on it, approving the test, saying that the stamper is good and the LP production can proceed. One of the things producers listen for is ticks and pops in the LP. So when they sign off, its on something that shouldn't have any ticks or pops.


If your phono section is immune to the RFI generated by a LOMC cartridge and the tonearm cable, its common to hear entire LP sides with no ticks or pops at all (unless the LP clearly has a scratch). (For this reason, I frequently get asked at shows if I'm playing a CD- I just point to the turntable.)


This immunity comes from four things- preventing the RFI from getting in, making sure that each stage can't oscillate (with tubes or discrete devices, a 'stopping resistor' is used for this purpose), the circuit has enough high frequency overload margin that the RFI can't overload it (keeping in mind that the RFI is a peak of 20-30dB) and finally that the circuit does not rectify the RF energy.


With tube circuits, if a tube is at the input directly (as opposed to an SUT) the RFI won't be likely to overload it. It might send it into oscillation if a stopping resistor isn't present, but if its there, then overload won't occur.


(A fundamental difference between solid state and tube phono sections is where the overload occurs if a strong signal is applied to the input of the phono. With solid state, the overload can occur right at the input. With tubes, its likely one or two stages downstream.)

Normally a 'cartridge loading resistor' is used to detune the RF resonance of the LOMC cartridge and tonearm cable. Eliminating RFI from audio circuits can affect how they sound; this is part of why you hear differences with loading vs no loading (although it can affect tracking too). But if you have a tube preamp, its far more common that loading simply won't be needed (SUTs excepted- that's a different set of conditions). Its much harder to get a solid state phono section to behave in this regard since semiconductors have diode junctions in them, and these junctions can rectify RF energy. For this reason, solid state phono sections that don't need cartridge loading are less common than they are with tube phono sections. If the RFI is rectified, this sits in the noise floor- and because of its structure, prevents the ear from penetrating the noise floor to extract more detail (natural hiss is one of the very few exceptions to the ear's masking rule).


If your preamp has loading options built-in for LOMC cartridges, its a good bet that the designer didn't deal with the RF resonance. If he had, the performance would be better.


So while tubes might be a bit noisier than solid state overall, you can more easily have less ticks and pops which to me is preferable. And as long as the phono noise is less than that of the cartridge tracking a silent groove on the LP, you won't hear it. That's very doable with cartridges of 0.2mV, which is about as low as cartridge outputs go with very few exceptions.