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Seriously considering tube preamp…opinions?

Tube virgin, here. I am building a system and I'm trying to contain the preamp/amp cost to $3k or so. (I could go up a little.) 

I'm inclined not to dive into tubes all the way through, but get a solid state on the output end. (Open to suggestions; inclined toward PS Audio, Parasound.) I'm reading around about tube preamps and have talked with my local dealer, who sells Black Ice/Jolida and Prima Luna (PL). He used to carry Rogue but said they kept coming back for repairs. That's why he carries PL.

I'm asking these questions after having established (via reviews, comments) that Schiit gear is quite the value. Lately, I've been reading about Decware and other small tube makers. I'm very curious about buying direct, if possible, and a company that stands behind their products is crucial.

So, your opinions about tube integrated or *especially* tube preamps —

1. Who do you like? Consider I want to do pre/amp for a total of $3k if possible.

2. Do you think PL is worth all that money just for a preamp? I get the feeling they're high quality but a bit over-hyped. (No disrespect to the highly passionate Kevin Deal, but he's all over my search results.) And what would you think about $2k/$1k preamp-to-amp spending ratio?

3. Any sense of what happened to Jolida since the name change to "Black Ice"? I see there's a sordid story there but did the re-branding clear up the mess? Any experiences with the Black Ice company?

4. I know there are many Schiit fans out there; so my question would be -- did anyone consider Schiit for tube preamp and go another way? Or move beyond Schiit for any particular reason? It's hard not to just capitulate and do a Freya+ or Saga+ but why wouldn't one just go with Schiit?




128x128hilde45
decooney
1,905 posts
 
@hilde45 
Seems like a worthy step-up on efficiency from the 84db Wow1s to the 90db SS 6Ms, opens up a few more amplification options for sure.  

While we bounced all over the place on your post, you got a lot of feedback and options to try.  One last note for your upcoming demos.

re: Demo (burn-in) -  
Be sure to ask if it's brand new or true burned-in demo amp(s) you'll be receiving. You'd effectively be demoing new (un-broken-in) Salk speakers and maybe new 0-hr amps too (correct?). Some speakers and some amps taking hundreds of hours to settle in. Maybe ask the providers.  

Good luck on the upcoming amplification demos!  
laaudionut
241 posts
 
Coda amp matched with an Aric Audio preamp...you are welcome!
danvignau's avatar
danvignau
935 posts
 
Tubes can add some sweet sounding harmonics to recording that need them.  They can also add these harmonics to recordings that do not need them.  It used to be said that James Parker of Audio Research specifically added 2nd order harmonics to sweeten his design.  As a scientist of sorts,  I prefer to add harmonics on an as needed basis. 
atmasphere's avatar
atmasphere
11,590 posts
 
Tubes can add some sweet sounding harmonics to recording that need them. They can also add these harmonics to recordings that do not need them. It used to be said that James Parker of Audio Research specifically added 2nd order harmonics to sweeten his design. As a scientist of sorts, I prefer to add harmonics on an as needed basis.
This sort of blanket statement is problematic! The actual psychoacoustic situation is much more complex. Just as tubes 'add harmonics', so do transistors (although to a lesser extent). The problem is that with the vast majority of transistor amps (greater than 99%, due to insufficient gain bandwidth product, which is a discussion for another thread) the harmonics they add are higher orders which are interpreted by the ear as brightness and harshness.

The ear has a masking principle, and in addition is relatively insensitive to the lower ordered harmonics (2nd-4th). If the lower orders are present in sufficient quantity, they can mask the presence of the higher orders. This is why tubes sound smoother than solid state despite having higher distortion.


On the personal preference side, I enjoy the greater soundstage width and depth, instrument timbres and low level detail that IME that is commonly associated with tube circuits.


hilde45's avatar
hilde45 OP
4,795 posts
 
At this point, I’ve only compared tubes vs SS two times:
#1
Dynaudio evoke 10s (84db, 6 ohm) somewhat underpowered by
Atoll solid state separates 60wpc vs Quicksilver integrated, 20 epic. The QS was far superior. #2
Spendor A7 (88db, 8 ohms) quite well supplied by Primaluna EVO 400 integrated vs Parasound separates P6 & A23+. The Parasound was superior. 
Overall, as I said, the QS was clearly superior to all else, but I want to hear more. 

I mention this because it is my actual listening background, and identifies my present limitations for comprehending suggestions and data points mentioned. 
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