2. digital
  3. 154452-3549

Why you want upsampling and upconversion in a server and why it sounds way better!

One of Roon's and Jrivers best advantages is the ability to digitally reprocess your data. 

With an appropriate server you can take for example a 16 bit 44k Tidal stream and reprocess that data stream to DSD or to reprocess to 24bit 192k, 384k, even up to 768k.

In our tests almost accross the board most listeners perfer DSD or high res PCM data streams.

The counter arguement is that if you start with 16 bit 44k sample you can't do any better as that  is the source.

Going through Facebook we got a post that showed the Lumiere brothers first film shot in 1894 with a steam locomotive. 

The second video showed the same Lumiere video reprocessed using AI to create a 4k video stream out of the same video footage. 

The first video is the native source the second shows the reprocessed video the differences aren't subtitle even if you reprocess the native video you are able to extract a signifigantly higher quality image. 

We have been saying this for years even if you don't start out with a true high res source through the magic of computer reprocessing you can create a pseudo high res data packet that still sound far better than ifs original form.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/02/someone-used-neural-networks-to-upscale-a-famous-1896-video-to-4k-quality/

Watch the video and see what you think. Sure it is always best to start with a true high resolution image but in the case of not having a true high resolution music fille the ability to use digital reprocessing can create a signal that will sound far better providing that your dac and server are up to the task.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ



 
128x128audiotroy
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz
13,381 posts
 
Erik

I only ever used coax and toslink so maybe it is a function of the USB input from n the earlier Brooklyn DAC?
erik_squires
15,662 posts
 
maybe it is a function of the USB input from n the earlier Brooklyn DAC?

Maybe.  :) It definitely feels like a software/timing glitch to me. Coax/optical have no handshake. The DAC must continuously monitor the incoming signal and sync to it, unlike USB where there is definitely a handshake and after that the DAC pulls each frame.

Best,

E


willrich47
52 posts
 
@audiotroy

I’ve been round the mulberry bush several times with upsampling to my PS Audio DSD DAC. I know why Roon’s upsampling can be appealing. Depending on how it’s done, I can hear the apparent increase in space and detail around the notes. However, this seems to be dependent upon which phase filter is being used. 

The phase filters as applied in Roon definitely add their own flavor to the music. To me, the minimum phase filter smooths things out, kills dynamics a bit, and seems to smear the music ever so slightly. 

Conversely, while the linear phase filter does raise the spectre of pre-ringing, it also gives that apparent increase in space and detail you referenced above; almost like a Photoshop sharpening, or contrast filter. But, this seems to come at the expense of removing a bit of sweetness from the highs (I’m sure there are other differences). To me, it leaves the sound a little more harsh. On short listens, I know exactly why people might prefer the sound. 

For me, all roads have lead back to native frequencies. I have yet to find any DSP combination in Roon that is more appealing than a native file, in the long run. Although short-term changes seem to make improvements, after the novelty wears off, I have without exception felt the exchange was a bit of a Faustian bargain (trading the music’s soul for cheap tricks).


Have you considered whether your preference for upsampling is because of the phase filter being used? Something of a “sound effect”?
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audiotroy's avatar
audiotroy OP
3,588 posts
 
Willrich how are you upampling? What are you using at your Roon Core?

Also the PS audio is not going to be the best test bed as it is converting everything to DSD internally.

So in the case of the PS audio your results may not mirror ours.

With the T+A  SD 3100 converting to DSD sounds amazing, the same thing with the Light Harmonic Davinci. 

Many Dacs Lumin, Bricasti sound amazing running DSD 

Part of this conversation is the ability to turn PCM to DSD with Roon many people prefer the warmer sound of DSD.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ
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