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Imaging and the first violin(s)

If there’s one gremlin in my listening for decades, it has been a certain instability in the image in certain circumstances. I listen to a lot of chamber music, and I’ve noticed that the first violin’s place in the image can get less defined, particularly when the instrument is playing fortissimo. I’ve also noticed it in orchestral music, and sometimes in different ranges of piano recordings - moving from left to right.

I wonder if it is my setup - I’m along the long wall of the room, and while there is lots of space on either side of the speakers, it is not exactly symmetrical. However, I just moved last year, and the shorter and harder side switched from right to left, yet I get the same thing. Three different sets of speakers have exhibited this, and I’ve noticed it auditioning music in dealer showrooms as well (btw, don’t all those speakers standing around play havoc with near term reflections??). I haven’t done enough controlled experimentation, but I do think toe-in ameliorates it a little, but not all together.

I wonder sometimes whether the violins are able to, essentially, cut into the right-aimed microphone at certain levels. Or, I suppose, it could be a frequency-based imbalance in my own right and left ear hearing.

Anybody else notice this sort of thing?
ahofer
ahofer OP
225 posts
 
Incidentally, I’ve been in some concert halls that had disturbing reflections from near the stage. If you go to Carnegie to hear a pianist, don’t sit on the tiers on the left side towards the stage. Even down on the floor, if you are too far left, you get a reflection off of the stage wall that is disconcerting.

Not exactly the same thing, although I've wondered whether having some live surfaces around the stage might contribute to this effect in some recordings.
lowrider57's avatar
lowrider57
5,393 posts
 
I have a pretty decent CD collection of string quartets, quintets, trios and the sound of individual instruments has always been properly placed on the soundstage.

Sometimes with piano, I'll notice that the sound has moved slightly left or right but then returns to the proper position. I find this disturbing, but realise that it's a mic'ing and/or mixing occurrence.

I'll check the tracks you listed on Qobuz and see what happens.


lowrider57's avatar
lowrider57
5,393 posts
 
@ahofer The Ravel is a beautiful piece. And on the 2nd movement I do hear the first violin moving from left side to left center during the early pizzicato.
I checked a YouTube video and both violins plus the viola are performing pizzicato throughout the movement. On the Qobuz recording I think I heard the cello move from right side toward the middle.

These instruments are wonderfully mic’d and recorded. I think what’s happening is since the mics are above the group and not dedicated to each instrument, the mix engineer is playing with the balance to fill the soundstage with music. This isn’t my cup of tea, I’d rather the performance be an accurate reproduction of the live event.

But it is a masterful performance with excellent sonics. It's a great listen.

lowrider57's avatar
lowrider57
5,393 posts
 
On second listen, there’s no doubt that the violin is at full gain in both speakers.
My guess is they are using omni-directional mic’s which have a wide pickup patten. This, combined with the mixing of the performance to fill the soundstage would be my explanation.

I can’t explain why you hear this effect on other string quartets, except that you need to focus the image by adding some absorbion or diffusion on the wall behind the speakers.

ahofer OP
225 posts
 
@gs5556  yes, I attend live chamber music about once every two weeks, and every month or so my wife plays with friends in our home (she is a violist).  I have a Steinway "M" which was in my living room for 28 yrs until last year, and I went to Music School for several semesters while getting my bachelor's elsewhere. Concert halls do have their vagaries, as I suggest above, but this seems to be a stereo reproduction thing  
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