Watts, and clarity.


Is it still true that all other things equal in a stereo system, that watts do more to clarify sound quality, than watts to to increase decibel output?, or has newer technology changed this? I used to hear that it takes ten times the watts to double the decibel output "all other things in the stereo system being equal". This was back in the 80’s that I heard this. I also remember hearing that it took 24, 400 watt power amps to reproduce the sound of scissors snapping without cutting of the sound wave on an oscilloscope. Is this true?
rickytickytwo

"I have yet to see a credible proof of the scissor argument."

Hi clearthink, let me walk you through this with a little more context, especially for those who have no idea what we are talking about.

As I recall, some amplifier vendor claimed that you needed super amounts of power to reproduce the sound of scissors snipping without distortion, which is what I believe the OP alluded to. I believe that based on this the originator claimed 300 Watts was the absolute minimum audiophiles should have.

What I meant to say, without writing a page about it, is that no one has verified this claim. It was 1 vendor making 1 very technical and, if true, easy to prove claim that has become legend. It is not up to me to verify someone else’s proof, and justify their sales pitch.

Because this is from a single vendor, making a rather novel claim, I can’t treat it with a lot of credibility. If I had made this "discovery" believe me that I’d have a paper in the AES journal by now!

Also, note the exact phrasing I used "I have yet to see..." meaning, show me otherwise. I never claimed I knew all of it.

You and you’re "credible proofs" are so funny always demanding, insisting, and requiring that others deliver to you upon your sole, unilateral, and arbitrary demand "proof" supported by scientific data that you accept or reject at your singular discretion

You are unhappy that my standard for credibility is higher than 1 sales pitch? Just how low do you think our standards should really be? Or are you unhappy that this 1 sales pitch got amplified to the point where it has become audiophile lore? Are you unhappy that I mentioned to the OP that this is in fact 1 person’s sales pitch, without validation? Should I have let the OP go on his merry journey buying amps without this information?

We should all have the luxury of enjoying our music and equipment aesthetically without the need to rely on false or unproven claims. If lore comes up that can’t stand up to scrutiny, it should be pointed out.


while you insist that lack of credible proof reflects "snake oil" "cons" and other such nonsense. Why don’t you go do some testing on you’re own and then you will have your answers.

Please show me where I have made this exact argument. Or even where I make an allusion to this. Nowhere in my original reply to the OP do I use these words or make those claims. In fact, the best way to refute me would have been to post a link to an article from a reputable source, and say "Erik, you didn’t see this, here you go..."
And no, I’m not the fascist you claim. To summarize I say :

  • You referenced a legend I have no verification of, and which may not be accurate
  • I think 100 watts is a good amount
  • I recommend an amp to start with

Reading my original reply, I think I’m a pretty swell guy. :)


Best,

E

Watts don't clarify sound quality, they just make poor quality sound louder if it's a cheap high powered amp.

Design and parts quality clarify sound. People don't pay big bucks for ARC just because of the name. If ARC delivered AMP's with SS Rotel sound, and ARC prices, they would go out of business in a jiff.

Some people can hear, some people can not; if you are one of those who thinks a powerful mid fi amp sounds as good as a less powered high end amp, then by all means exclude the expensive amp from your shopping list.
Orpheus10, 
Well stated. Power will not adequately substitute  for a lack of needed quality. If it were simply about increased power then every manufacturer would just produce 1000 watt amplifiers and the  "clarity"  issue is resolved.
Charles 
Sorry for not being clearer about the source of the "scissors" snap. I got this from a video on Youtube called "Miss Hologram". I would cut and paste it for you but I am on my Mom's computer and she has an easy set up because she is not tech savvy. I actually cannot copy and paste with it. Anyway at about 6:06 into the video Bob Carver discusses his friend that did the testing. WARNING, the video is extremely corny, it was the early 80's after all and this was when he was drumming up business for his second company, Carver Corp. 

As far as amps go, I already have some Carver m-4 t's that sound great as long as the impedance of the speakers does not dip below 4 ohms.