2. speakers
  3. 133293-107338

New system has fatiguing, harsh high frequency sounds. How to fix?

I just purchased my first audio and home theater system (other than a bluetooth speaker or computer speaker system). I use it for listening to music as well as watching movies. It is a tremendous upgrade and I’m enjoying it. It has clarity and detail that I have never heard before. However, I notice a harshness in the high frequency sounds when listening to music.

I would like my treble to be smooth, sweet, soft, silky and gentle. Right now it is the opposite of that. It is annoying, screechy, metallic and harsh.

I am seeking a solution to that issue. From the little I have been able to find on this subject, it seems that room acoustics might be a big part of my solution. Is that true? If not, what is my next step? An equalizer? I can’t see many options for big changes in speaker placement. At most I can move them a few inches or change the angles.

My listening room is about 11.5 feet by 11.5 feet and square except for the doorway in the back corner which protrudes into the room 18 inches x 44 inches. In the room are a bookcase, couch, end table, media center stand (holding TV, center speaker, receiver, disc player and Roku), computer & computer monitor, my speakers (and rear speaker stands), a ceiling fan and that’s about it... I’m describing the room on the assumption that the room (or its contents) are relevant to the treble problem I’m describing. (However, throwing some thick blankets over my TV and computer monitor, as a test, did not change the issue.)

Here are my home theater components:

  • Computer monitor: WASABI MANGO UHD400 40" 3840X2160
  • TV: LG OLED65C7P 65"
  • Receiver: Sony STRDN1080
  • Disc Player: LG UP875 4K BLU-RAY PLAYER BestBuy SKU 5979504
  • Streaming Box: Roku Ultra streaming player (model 4660)
I mention the monitors (and their size) in case they play a role in reflecting sounds.

Speakers:
  • Front 1: Polk Audio RTi A7 floorstanding speakers
  • Front 2: Polk Audio RTi A5 floorstanding speakers
  • Center Speaker: Klipsch RP-250C Center Channel Speaker
  • Subwoofer 1: Polk Audio PSW125 Subwoofer
  • Subwoofer 2: Klipsch R-112SW Subwoofer 
  • Rear/Surround: Polk Audio RTI A3
Speaker Layout: 5.1 layout with two pair of front speakers and two subwoofers.

The front speakers are on either side of the LG TV on the front wall (and near the room corners. The front speakers are angled in. Minimum distance to wall is 10", but measuring straight/parallel from back of speaker to wall is at least 18". From side of speaker to wall is at least a foot (one side of room has 30 inches). There is only 3" between each RTi A5 and RTi A7 speaker.

The rear speakers are behind the couch at each corner and against the back wall.

One subwoofer is in the back corner. The other is midway on the other wall and angled toward listening area.

For music, I usually prefer listening in 2-channel stereo. The dual pairs of front speakers are awesome. (I initially started out with a 7.1 layout but I prefer this layout now.) The high frequency problem exists even in 2-channel stereo. It also exists if I use only 1 pair of front speakers.

Wiring
All speakers are bi-wired, except the center (and subwoofers), which don’t support it. (Not bi-amp’d, just bi-wired*.)

Speaker wire: Mediabridge 12AWG 4-Conductor Speaker Wire (100 Feet, White) - 99.9% Oxygen Free Copper - ETL Listed & CL2 Rated for In-Wall Use

* https://www.qacoustics.co.uk/blog/2016/06/08/bi-wiring-speakers-exploration-benefits/

Banana Plugs:
  • Mediabridge Banana Plugs - Corrosion-Resistant 24K Gold-Plated Connectors - 12 Pair/24 Banana Plugs (Part# SPC-BP2-12 )
  • Sewell Silverback , 24k Gold Dual Screw Lock Speaker Connector
  • Ocelot Banana Plugs, 24k Gold Plated Connectors, Open Screw Type
BTW, my prior speakers were the Edifier e25 Luna Eclipse. I thought they sounded good and I did not remember them having these harsh high frequency sounds. After listening to my new system for a week, I went back to those for a test and they sounded horrible in comparison. The harsh high frequency sounds are much worse, and every other aspect is worse as well. (That shouldn’t be a surprise given the price ranges being compared, but my incorrect memory had been that they didn’t have this issue.)
lowoverdrive
avanti1960
1,405 posts
 
you may have a system synergy issue (bright amp + bright speakers) especially since each are new and not close to being burned in / broken in.  each should start sounding smoother over time- could take a year or so (seriously).  
however- your setup is not doing them any favors.  look up the term "baffle step compensation".  basically it is an adjustment of the speaker's crossover to reduce frequencies (midrange and treble) that are reflected forward by the front baffle of the enclosure.  
by having the monitor screens and another set of speakers in the same plane as your main speakers, you have effectively increased the surface area of the baffle and you are hearing lots of high midrange / low treble energy reflecting back to the listening position.  not good!  the speakers need air around them in all directions- two feet or so if possible..  get rid of the unused set, pull the speakers as far forward as possible from the screens, push the screens as far back as possible and then put thick quilts or blankets over the screens when listening to music. 
once you have done that any issues that remain are likely system synergy and break-in related.  
willemj
1,036 posts
 
I am not so sure it is the Sony, but to be sure you have to diagnose properly, excluding one possibility at a time. Going through the chain from the beginning:
1 it could be the actual music. Listen to a live symphony orchestra, and at times that can sound pretty harsh. Use classical music as a source to judge this. Solution if there still is a problem and if this is the cause: face up to reality.
2 it could be the mastering. These days many pop recordings are mastered at very high levels, with clipping distortion as a result. This is intended, even of not necessarily by the original artists in case of a modern remaster. In that case the cure would be to get hold of anolder mastering. With classical music this is rarely a problem.
3 it could be a mismatch between signal levels of the analogue source and the analogue input, potentially generating clipping distortion. Many amplifiers cannot quite handle the high 2.0 volt (or more) signal levels of e.g. a cd player. This could also happen with digital sources, but less likely. Cure: an inline attenuator in the case of an analogue source, or a reduction in the digital domain (if possible). Question: do you suffer this harsh sound with all sources (including FM radio, or only with some?
4 Jitter from the inbuilt DAC of the Sony (if you are using the digital input). I doubt it will be as serious as your problem seems to be. Cure: a different receiver.
5 insuffient power, leading to clipping of the power amplifier. Hard to imagine in such a small room.
6 harsh speakers. I don’t know these speakers, but changing them around with some other speakers will identify if they are the culprits. Cure 1: get other speakers. Cure 2: use your amplifier’s tone controls.
7 a harsh sounding room. If your room has too many hard and reflective surfaces, use damping materials like rugs etc to dampen those reflections. If that is not enough, use the tone controls. Compare the sound when using the same gear in a different room.

Beyond this, have a close look at the settings of the receiver. This is a fancy piece with more options than you can imagine in your wildest dreams. And therefore more possibilities to get it wrong. Make sure you know what you are doing.

Reading about your own experiments, it looks as if the combination of speakers and the room is the real culprit.

You do not mention it, but in a small and square room such as this, the subwoofers are also likely to generate a lot of nasty room modes at the lower end. Just two small high quality mini monitors may well give a much better sound (or move all this gear to a bigger room in the house). This room really is too small. If you insist, use the room eq in the receiver, if you have not already done so. But in such a small room, room modes will be at pretty high frequencies (up to the room’s Schroeder frequency of 245 Hz or so for the fundamentals, and much higher for the harmonics), and equalization will only work over a pretty small listening position. Do not think using just one sub wil work: it will only make matters worse because multiple subs even out the response.

If you want to measure what you are hearing, get a UMIK-1 calibrated microphone and measure with the free REW software (unless the Sony allows you to do about the same).

willemj
1,036 posts
 
I don't believe break in is a real thing, beyond maybe the first few hours for the speakers. There are just too many myths in audiophile land.
tubegroover
2,320 posts
 
I agree with Shadorne. Inexpensive receivers have compromised power supplies and current delivery as also stated. It would be my first likely culprit but there may be other issues as well with room and reflection problems that might be mitigated/improved with room treatments. 
lowoverdrive OP
169 posts
 
This has been very educational. Based on the advice received here (and my experiments so far), this room is too small for both home theater (with the large screen) and optimal music listening. Covering the screens while listening to music will prevent me from picking songs, etc.

So I am going to try moving my music listening location to another room.

I made a new post on that topic here:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/amp-or-receiver-recommendation-for-polk-audio-rti-a7-floorsta...

For this small room, with the feedback I received here, I was able to achieve a great movie sound experience with the existing Sony receiver. This room can work well for home theater. Here are the speakers I'll use:

  • Front: Polk Audio RTI A3
  • Center Speaker: Polk Audio CSI A6 Center Channel Speaker
  • Subwoofer 1: Polk Audio PSW125 Subwoofer
  • Subwoofer 2: Klipsch R-112SW Subwoofer (optional)
  • Rear/Surround: Polk Audio 35B bookshelf speakers (5 yr old never used, purchased on Craigslist)
I feel like I have probably solved the home theater part of this, thanks to the advice given here, without spending any money.

I'm going to put my budget toward the music system that will go in another room. See thread linked above if you care of offer any suggestions.

Thanks for the great feedback here. I will keep experimenting with all this, so please continue to comment here if you wish and I'll keep reading and trying things.
More to discover