New system has fatiguing, harsh high frequency sounds. How to fix?


I just purchased my first audio and home theater system (other than a bluetooth speaker or computer speaker system). I use it for listening to music as well as watching movies. It is a tremendous upgrade and I’m enjoying it. It has clarity and detail that I have never heard before. However, I notice a harshness in the high frequency sounds when listening to music.

I would like my treble to be smooth, sweet, soft, silky and gentle. Right now it is the opposite of that. It is annoying, screechy, metallic and harsh.

I am seeking a solution to that issue. From the little I have been able to find on this subject, it seems that room acoustics might be a big part of my solution. Is that true? If not, what is my next step? An equalizer? I can’t see many options for big changes in speaker placement. At most I can move them a few inches or change the angles.

My listening room is about 11.5 feet by 11.5 feet and square except for the doorway in the back corner which protrudes into the room 18 inches x 44 inches. In the room are a bookcase, couch, end table, media center stand (holding TV, center speaker, receiver, disc player and Roku), computer & computer monitor, my speakers (and rear speaker stands), a ceiling fan and that’s about it... I’m describing the room on the assumption that the room (or its contents) are relevant to the treble problem I’m describing. (However, throwing some thick blankets over my TV and computer monitor, as a test, did not change the issue.)

Here are my home theater components:

  • Computer monitor: WASABI MANGO UHD400 40" 3840X2160
  • TV: LG OLED65C7P 65"
  • Receiver: Sony STRDN1080
  • Disc Player: LG UP875 4K BLU-RAY PLAYER BestBuy SKU 5979504
  • Streaming Box: Roku Ultra streaming player (model 4660)
I mention the monitors (and their size) in case they play a role in reflecting sounds.

Speakers:
  • Front 1: Polk Audio RTi A7 floorstanding speakers
  • Front 2: Polk Audio RTi A5 floorstanding speakers
  • Center Speaker: Klipsch RP-250C Center Channel Speaker
  • Subwoofer 1: Polk Audio PSW125 Subwoofer
  • Subwoofer 2: Klipsch R-112SW Subwoofer 
  • Rear/Surround: Polk Audio RTI A3
Speaker Layout: 5.1 layout with two pair of front speakers and two subwoofers.

The front speakers are on either side of the LG TV on the front wall (and near the room corners. The front speakers are angled in. Minimum distance to wall is 10", but measuring straight/parallel from back of speaker to wall is at least 18". From side of speaker to wall is at least a foot (one side of room has 30 inches). There is only 3" between each RTi A5 and RTi A7 speaker.

The rear speakers are behind the couch at each corner and against the back wall.

One subwoofer is in the back corner. The other is midway on the other wall and angled toward listening area.

For music, I usually prefer listening in 2-channel stereo. The dual pairs of front speakers are awesome. (I initially started out with a 7.1 layout but I prefer this layout now.) The high frequency problem exists even in 2-channel stereo. It also exists if I use only 1 pair of front speakers.

Wiring
All speakers are bi-wired, except the center (and subwoofers), which don’t support it. (Not bi-amp’d, just bi-wired*.)

Speaker wire: Mediabridge 12AWG 4-Conductor Speaker Wire (100 Feet, White) - 99.9% Oxygen Free Copper - ETL Listed & CL2 Rated for In-Wall Use

* https://www.qacoustics.co.uk/blog/2016/06/08/bi-wiring-speakers-exploration-benefits/

Banana Plugs:
  • Mediabridge Banana Plugs - Corrosion-Resistant 24K Gold-Plated Connectors - 12 Pair/24 Banana Plugs (Part# SPC-BP2-12 )
  • Sewell Silverback , 24k Gold Dual Screw Lock Speaker Connector
  • Ocelot Banana Plugs, 24k Gold Plated Connectors, Open Screw Type
BTW, my prior speakers were the Edifier e25 Luna Eclipse. I thought they sounded good and I did not remember them having these harsh high frequency sounds. After listening to my new system for a week, I went back to those for a test and they sounded horrible in comparison. The harsh high frequency sounds are much worse, and every other aspect is worse as well. (That shouldn’t be a surprise given the price ranges being compared, but my incorrect memory had been that they didn’t have this issue.)
lowoverdrive

Showing 12 responses by willemj

I am not so sure it is the Sony, but to be sure you have to diagnose properly, excluding one possibility at a time. Going through the chain from the beginning:
1 it could be the actual music. Listen to a live symphony orchestra, and at times that can sound pretty harsh. Use classical music as a source to judge this. Solution if there still is a problem and if this is the cause: face up to reality.
2 it could be the mastering. These days many pop recordings are mastered at very high levels, with clipping distortion as a result. This is intended, even of not necessarily by the original artists in case of a modern remaster. In that case the cure would be to get hold of anolder mastering. With classical music this is rarely a problem.
3 it could be a mismatch between signal levels of the analogue source and the analogue input, potentially generating clipping distortion. Many amplifiers cannot quite handle the high 2.0 volt (or more) signal levels of e.g. a cd player. This could also happen with digital sources, but less likely. Cure: an inline attenuator in the case of an analogue source, or a reduction in the digital domain (if possible). Question: do you suffer this harsh sound with all sources (including FM radio, or only with some?
4 Jitter from the inbuilt DAC of the Sony (if you are using the digital input). I doubt it will be as serious as your problem seems to be. Cure: a different receiver.
5 insuffient power, leading to clipping of the power amplifier. Hard to imagine in such a small room.
6 harsh speakers. I don’t know these speakers, but changing them around with some other speakers will identify if they are the culprits. Cure 1: get other speakers. Cure 2: use your amplifier’s tone controls.
7 a harsh sounding room. If your room has too many hard and reflective surfaces, use damping materials like rugs etc to dampen those reflections. If that is not enough, use the tone controls. Compare the sound when using the same gear in a different room.

Beyond this, have a close look at the settings of the receiver. This is a fancy piece with more options than you can imagine in your wildest dreams. And therefore more possibilities to get it wrong. Make sure you know what you are doing.

Reading about your own experiments, it looks as if the combination of speakers and the room is the real culprit.

You do not mention it, but in a small and square room such as this, the subwoofers are also likely to generate a lot of nasty room modes at the lower end. Just two small high quality mini monitors may well give a much better sound (or move all this gear to a bigger room in the house). This room really is too small. If you insist, use the room eq in the receiver, if you have not already done so. But in such a small room, room modes will be at pretty high frequencies (up to the room’s Schroeder frequency of 245 Hz or so for the fundamentals, and much higher for the harmonics), and equalization will only work over a pretty small listening position. Do not think using just one sub wil work: it will only make matters worse because multiple subs even out the response.

If you want to measure what you are hearing, get a UMIK-1 calibrated microphone and measure with the free REW software (unless the Sony allows you to do about the same).

I don't believe break in is a real thing, beyond maybe the first few hours for the speakers. There are just too many myths in audiophile land.
OK. HT room sorted I would think. Are you using the room eq of your receiver?
For the music room, I moved to your new thread.
I have come to think that the problems need to be adressed at the root. Speakers and their interaction with the room are responsible for 90% of  sound quality:
1 it is an illusion to think that it will ever be possoble to have really good sound in that room. It is too small, and because it is square, the room modes will also be bunched together. All that is possible is casual listening with a pair of mini monitors (you could use your old speakers for that, with a cheap Sony STR 130 if you still want some sound in that room).
2 Since speakers are so important, and because they are also by far the most expensive component, you have too many of them and they are not as good as they should. Why not opt for a 2 channel HT system? That is what I did: you give up some surround effects, but you gain a lot of sound quality. Since you seem to be in a position that you can return a lot of your gear (all the Polk stuff, including the Polk Sub (?), the Sony, and perhaps also the LG disc player?), do so. Move over to the mid size room, and use whatever budget you have to buy some really good speakers (Harbeth M30.1?) and some affordable electronics (Harbeths do not need fancy electronics or cables - sell those too if they are worth any money). How much budget would this create? Electronics: for example an Oppo 205 disc player and pre amp (if your LG does not have the right inputs and outputs and volume control), plus a beefy Emotiva or pro audio power amp.
And for a cheaper version of my two channel HT suggestion, and more so if you cannot return the LG disc player: a Yamaha AS 801 2x100 watt amplifier with optical, coaxial and usb digital inputs, plus the somewhat cheaper Harbeth C7ES-3 speakers.
Unfortunately unlike the Oppo the LG player cannot quite serve as a pre amplifier because it does not have a digital input (apart from a LAN networking connection and a USB that will only take memory sticks but not computers).
The disadvantages of tubes are clear:
1 high energy consumption (think of the environment)
2 often very speaker load dependent frequency response (i.e. tube sound where an amplifier should not have a sound of its own.
3 often pretty bad measured test results.
4 Often quite low output
5 expensive
6 hassle
To be honest, I have never noticed such harshness, even using modest digital sources in a revealing system. There is clarity compared to vinyl, which is not surprising if you look at the high frequency drop off in plots of many pickup cartridges. Reality takes getting used to.
If there is harshness, it is usually either the speakers or a reflective room. One other thing could be clipping distortion on the input stage of the amplifier. Most digital sources conform to the Red Book standard of 2.0 Volt output, and that is a lot for the line input of many traditional amplifiers. Amplifier designers would do well to take notice, but if they don’t, inline attenuators are the easy cure.
As for break in, not surprisingly as mechanical devices speakers need a bit of that. Harbeth say a few hours will do, and that was indeed my experience, even if the difference was never more than minor.
I am not denying that his system sounds harsh, only that this is not because he uses a digital source. Earlier in this thread I have given a checklist of possibilities.
By the way, there is nothing wrong with Bluray players as disc spinners (think Oppo). In this case the BD player was even used with an external DAC, so the sonic signature would be that of the DAC. Anyway, the harshness in that small room system has already been cured.
As for harshness at higher levels, and it is indeed real, ceteris paribus the root cause of that is insufficient amplifier power. I fail to understand why self professed audiophiles do not understand that moving a lot of air simply requires a lot of energy. Fortunately for him the OP has solved that potential problem with his 2x500 watt rms amplifier.
The snag with smartphone apps is that they use the phone's microphone. In the case of the Iphone that is not such a problem because there are few models and therefore they can be calibrated for. In the case of Android, the variety is enormous.
The best way to measure is to use the free REW software with the UMIK-1 usb microphone ($85 from PartsExpress). Unfortunately there is a learning curve, but fortunately YouTube is full of instructional videos. Since you use Linux you are unlikely to be very bad with software.
The OP has already sorted the harshness of his HT system.
As for the idea to go for tube amplification, I think that is unwise. Many tube amplifiers do indeed have a warm top end, but that is quite simply because their frequency response is not flat. In short, they function as a very expensive and non-adjustable equalizer. As fh says, one can achieve the same with tone controls or an equalizer.
Unless the amplifier has a sleep mode (many modern ones do, if only because some countries now mandate them), typical idle consumption of an AB amp is some 50-150 watt. Take 100 watt for a calculation: leave it on all day that is 2400 watt per day, or 875 kilowatt per annum. That is about 13% of the annual electricity consumption (much of it own produced by our solar panels) in our large family home with fridges, dishwasher, washing machine, dryer, electric oven, several computers etc. At Dutch electricity prices 875 KW costs about $200 if bought from a utility. So in my mind electricity consumption is worth considering, both financially and environmentally.
Therefore, in my view leaving any amplifier on all day is unwise, and similarly I believe Class A and tubes are about to become extinct species because of their high energy consumption. Misery sleep modes will become far more common soon, and after that Class D will replace Class AB (it already has in many mass market units).