Which watts are the right watts in SS amps?


Hello Sports Fans!

More than a few people over the years on these pages have said only those SS amps which double down in output power as impedance drops are truly special or worthy amps. Eg., 200 @ 8ohms; 400 @ 4 ohms; 800 @ 2 ohms; etc.

Not every SS amp made does this trick. Some very expensive ones don’t quite get to twice their 8 ohm rated power when impedance halves to four ohms. BAT, darTZeel, Wells, and Ypsalon to name just a few.

An amps ‘‘soul’’ or it’s ‘voice’ is the main reason why I would opt in on choosing an amp initially and keeping it. Simultaneously , I’d consider its power and the demands of what ever speakers may be intended to be run with it or them.

I’ve heard, 80% of the music we are listening to is made in the first 20wpc! I’m sure there’s some wisdom in there somewhere as many SS amps running AB, are biased to class A Only for a small portion of the total output EX. 10 – 60 wpc of 150 or 250 wpc.

After all, any amps true output levels are a complete mystery when anyone is listening to music anyhow.

I suspect, not being able to actually measure true power consumption, the vast majority of listening sessions revolve around 60wpc or so being at hand with traditional modern reasonably efficient speakers.

Sure, there are those speakers which don’t fit into the traditional loudspeaker power needs mold such as panels or electrostats, and this ain’t about them.

The possibility of clipping a driver is about the only facet in amp to speaker matching which gives a person pause while pondering this or that amplifier.

I feel there is more to how good an amp is than its ability tou double output power with 50% drops in speaker impedance.

However, speakers are demanding more power lately. Many are coming out of the gates with 4 ohm ‘nominal’ IMPs which lower with fluctuations in frequency. Add in larger motors on larger drivers, multiple driver arrays, and on paper these SOTA speakers appear to need more power.

IMHO It is this note which introduces great concern.

I’ve read every article I can find on Vienna Acoustics Music. Each one says give them lots of watts for them to excel.

Many times good sounding speakers I’ve owned sounded better with more power, albeit from arguably a better amp.

I tend to believe having more than an adequate amount of cap power is indeed integral. … naturally the size and type of transformers in play possess a strong vote for an amps ability to successfully mate with speakers.

Controlling a driver’s ability to stop and restart is as well a key to great sound and only strong amplifiers can manage this feat. Usually this gets attributed to ‘damping’ factor, but damping as I read it is more a shadow than a tangible real world figure as it depends on numerous factors. Speaker cable length alone can alter damping factors.

A very good argument exists about those mega watt amps voices. Each 500 or 600 wpc amp or amps, I’ve heard have had stellar voices too, not merely more watts.

So is it predominately these mega watt power house amps souls or their capacities that fuels the speakers presentation?

Would you buy an ‘uber expensive’ amp based more on its voice or soul, than on its ability to output loads of watts, even if you feel the amp may be somewhat under powered for the application?

Choosing this latter option also saves one money as the more powerful amps do cost more than their lower outputting siblings.

Please, share your experiences if possible.

Tanks muchly!

blindjim
Most tube amps are the equivalent of a graphic equalizer

Couldn't have said that better +1, there are the odd one that's almost flat with speaker loading, but they are  a rare breed.

Cheers George
Both of willemj’s favorite speakers - LS3 5a and Quad electrostatics - both of which I’ve owned and am very familiar with, sound much, much better with tube amps than with solid state. I thought everyone knew that. Geez, Louise! Just say NO to solid state.


Hmmm.
Looks like the orig version of this thread was shifted from amplifiers to Tech talk. I debated myself on which one choosing amps instead.

A number of posts were made to that one with many good thoughts. All were and are certainly appreciated.

To put a point onto this exercise I’ve found myself lusting after several amps, and several brands of speakerage. Few were measured by Stereophile. Some are quite new and or newer versions of previous iterations so that might explain why. However, it leaves me pondering not so much which would be optimum, but which amp should be omitted from the collection of possible marriages.

Atop my never heard speaker list are Vienna Acoustic Music and Listz. TAD E one floor standers are next. The rest of the list contains speakers I will likely be able to hear soon enough….
KEF Blades I & II
Wilson Sabrinas, Sashas
Magico S5 latest ver.
Eggelston Ivy, andreas II or III.

Amps on close approach radar are …
Ypsalon Alieus
Gryphon Coloseum
Bermister 911
Master Sound Classic
BAT VK 655se
PSA BHK monos
Pass labs XA has a shot.

Gryphon has a different approach to amp power than you see normally. Their base amp shoves out 150w @ 8, doubling up as IMP halves all the way into 0.5 ohm!!

BAT, Bermester and Ypsalon differ from the doubling up and down crowd relying on caps as reserve power albeit, Gryphon uses this ploy too.

I’m opting into SS land once again as I don’t feel the tube power needed to properly conduct any of the speakers on my list will be a cost effective outcome. I feel most of these speakers will devour low power. Tube amps under 200wpc. Once more, I speculate.

Dunno if this input is needed here, as it was asked for in the Amplifier topic corral. Its here now anyhow.


Has anyone here seen third party measurements on these pieces?

I’ve felt since being a member here and relearning most everything I once knew about electricity, electronics and sound for that matter, that I buy with my ears mainly. My wallet next, and then good judgement or what I can find of it if any remains.

If the sound doesn’t thrill, or no perception of enormous potential is unearthed, I gotta move along. Especially at these prices..

So in my book, science often does not have the last word in my life. Everything it seems requires accommodations, compromise, and tolerance in this world regardless what it is called. .

The anxiety here is choosing an amp which does not have quite the legs it needs for these loudspeakers.

I’m sure all will work with whomever. Yet some great dark concern prevails around picking the power plant which has fascinating sonics, but does not have earth moving power.

Huge thanks for the feedback and insights to all.

+2

"Most tube amps are the equivalent of a graphic equalizer"

The higher transformer output impedance of most tube amps does indeed have a big eq effect with most typical low impedance speakers.

Some rare exceptions though. Audio Research for example.
@georgehifi 
"No amp will exactly double all the way, anyone who advertises this is stretching the truth"

PS AUDIO 200C   200 to 8 ohms,  400 to 4 ohms,  800 to 2 ohms, 1000 to 1.5 ohms... well documented.  I know some of the Coda amps will do this also.