Amp recommendation and setup advice please

Okay seems we are getting somewhere :)

For my father's TV setup it can look something like this:
- Emotiva AirMotive 5s (powered speakers, i.e. built in amp)
- HT processor (Krell Showcase or B&K Ref 20) OR 2 channel preamp/DAC (Audio-GD NFB-11.28)
-  configure satellite receiver to output 2-channel stereo audio through the digital connection and get a Blue Jean Cable Beldon 1694A 6 foot digital cable to connect them

Questions: do I need a preamp for powered speakers? do the HT processors you suggested have built in DAC and/or preamp? 

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For my vinyl setup it can look something like this:

- tower speakers (passive, make and model TBD)
- integrated amp such as Parasound Halo (phono preamp, preamp, amp, DAC) OR integrated amp (one that does not have DAC) + external DAC ( Gustard X20 pro or LKS MH-DA004)
- turntable (still thinking about the ProJect Debut Carbon Premium with Ortofon 2M RED cartridge)

Questions: do I need to consider anything else in this setup? what type of cables do I use? If I do go with the external DAC, please suggest a better integrated amp (as you mentioned). If this doesn't include phone preamp then I could consider the  PS Audio Nuwave phono preamp, but perhaps it's better to have an integrated amp that does include this and just have the external DAC, what do you think? perhaps there are even better integrated amps for the money that don't have phono preamps and then I get both DAC and phono preamps as external. 

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I totally appreciate your comments about speakers, and I know how difficult it is to give advice without a foundation to build upon. I live in the UK and just moved to a new city and I have not been able to find a decent hi-fi store, they all seem to be commercial shops that sell the standard sony, panasonic, samsung type speakers that non audiophiles will buy. 

I'm not sure if this helps but my vinyls are mainly jazz, blues, soul, but if and when I do plug in iPod/iPhone or laptop then I will play music with more bass and more of a punch like hip hop, house, rock, RnB. 

Thanks Mesch for the consideration against my original mentioned product for the same budget, it's good to know that I have a good option (Yamaha 801) for around that price bracket. And I agree in not spending too much on the TV setup, my father isn't that interested in having the best, but I will also be watching and listening on this setup so I'd like it to be decent enough. 

I guess to answer everyone's question about budget (which is difficult because I hadn't really considered it and set any limit):

For the TV setup - maybe betwen $1000-1,500 but of course if it's possible to go lower than great.
For Vinyl setup - anywhere between $3000-5000 but this is for me to so willing to go higher as necessary. 

If it helps in providing amp recommendations, I don't think I'll want to add a sub to the TV setup but may want to on my vinyl setup but earlier comments said that with the right amp and setup, the types of tower speakers I was considering will have enough bass, so this is fine for me. So it's not an essential to have that option for my vinyl setup. 

Thanks again all for your knowledgeable expertise and insights and for your patience with me as a newbie. 

Your budget is greater than I anticipated.

Though I certainly understand the interest in powered speakers, I prefer ownership of a separate amplifier and speakers. This allows one greater flexibility to change out speakers. Given this preference, for the TV system I would consider the purchase of an integrated amplifier w/DAC and a set of speakers. I also am more inclined to use a subwoofer with video than with audio. As a FYI, there is a Yamaha A-801S amplifier being offered here on AG. Not trying to push you in that direction, just believe it to be one quality full service integrated for your budget. There are others.

Regarding a vinyl/digital based system with emphasis toward vinyl, within a $5000 budget, it might serve you to start a separate thread asking for advice for the turntable/arm/cartridge for such a system. One could easily be justified in placing the same budget towards the TT as the speakers in such a system.

I would strongly consider searching the used market for speakers as well as an integrated amp, DAC, and phonostage however packaged. Your speaker choice will establish the need for amplification power. Stay away from speakers that are hard to drive. Seek out quality over quantity power.  

Wow, you’re in UK?  That does make things a lot more difficult because most sellers in USA will not ship to UK.

 

Okay for your TV setup, I would nix the idea of an HT Processor because it is going to be hard to find something that can ship to you within your budget.  So:

- Emotiva AirMotiv 5s - $499 USD (check with Emotiva to see if they will ship this to UK)

- Audio-GD NFB-11.28 $330 USD plus shipping (they will ship to UK)

 

Alternatively, you could move up the DAC/preamp to an Audio-GD NFB-29.28.  It is twice as much at $638 USD.  However, it is a better DAC/preamp and it also has more inputs (for both analog and digital), just in case you need to expand.  It depends if you want to spend the extra money. 

Or you could do like mesch says and get a very low-cost integrated with some ELAC B6 speakers.

In addition, you will also need that digital cable (Blue Jean Beldon) and a set of RCA audio cables that are long enough to reach the AirMotivs (maybe something like 6 feet?).  You can start with cheap cables initial if you want.  Or buy something like the Audioquest solid-core interconnects.

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Regarding your vinyl/dac system, the challenge here is that the availability/shipping AND the UK exchange rate is going to kill you.  For local stuff, you can try looking on the Ebay “UK” site (https://www.ebay.co.uk/).  I see several integrated amps from Ebay “UK” that I would put on a list:

 

HEGEL H200 Integrated Amplifier USED - £1,499.00 / $1,969 USD. This is only an integrated amp with no additional phono or DAC.  It is the most powerful of this short list and the Hegel is known to be very refined sounding.  The Hegel will likely be the best out of this list, but you would have to buy both an external DAC and phono preamp.

 

Parasound Halo Stereo Integrated Amplifier DEMO - £2,195.00 / $2,884 USD.  This has everything built into it already.  Parasound is known to have a lot of punch/slam (maybe even more than Hegel?).  It’s a great starter platform, but you can always expand/improve by adding external DAC or phono preamp.  This DEMO on Ebay UK is actually more than USD Retail, so if you were interested in this one, I would just buy a new one from Audio Advisor in the USA (they will ship to UK as long as they ship to your credit card address).  It may be hard to find a used one that will ship to UK.

 

- Arcam FMJ A39 Stereo Integrated Amplifier NEW - £1,699.99 / $2,232 USD

- Arcam FMJ A39 Integrated Amplifier USED - £849.00 / $1,115 USD

I included two, one used and one new, so that you can see a range.  The Arcam will be very sweet sounding and easy to listen to (it is biased into Class A to 20 watts, but will output up to 120 watts per channel).  It will not have the slam/punch as the Parasound/Hegel.  This includes a phono preamp.

 

Marantz PM-14S1 Integrated Stereo Amplifier-Gold USED - £1,799.00 / $2,363 USD.  The Marants is voiced to be warm sounding, warm rich.  People love the musicality of it.  The jazz type music does very well on all types of equipment, but since you do like to listen to hip hop / rock / R&B, the Marantz will probably not be fast enough for the punch/slam you want (it will be slower and more laid back).  This includes a phono preamp.

 

Buying an external phono preamp (such as PS Audio Nuwave) or an external DAC (Gustard/LKS) will always sound better than what is included in these integrated amplifiers.  It all depends on your budget.  I would probably lean towards an external DAC because the ability for a DAC to generate a more “analog” sound requires much better equipment.  The DAC included in the Parasound is okay, but nothing extraordinary.

 

I can give you a starting points for speakers (listed on Ebay UK):

New... Monitor Audio Silver 10 3 way 250w floorstanding speakers in Black Oak NEW - £1,150.00 / $1,510 USD.  The Monitor Audio has been known to be a very clean sounding and detailed speaker.  This one has two 8” woofers which will give you good bass punch (as long as you have enough amplifier power).  The C-CAM tweeter is based on ceramic and is very nice.  If you look at other Monitor Audio speakers, it’s important to know that the ribbon type tweeters can sound more laid back (which may not be what you want if you listen to hip-hop / R&B).

Cables are a whole new conversation. Lol.  The opinions will always be all over the board, but in my experience solid-core conductors always win in my tests.  I would avoid anything silver (my own opinion), but rhodium plated are excellent.  If it were me and I was starting out, I would look at the best Audioquest interconnects that still have gold-plated RCA plugs (avoid silver-plated in general).  The Wire World cables that have copper conductors and silver-clad RCA plugs are also very excellent (such as Eclipse 7).

Thanks again auxinput!

I have contacted Emotiva’s UK distributor and they said they are finalising shipping details as it’s been a nightmare trying to keep the costs down. Once they sort this they will bring over a load of Airmotiv’s.

I was checking out the 6s, they seem bigger and better than the 5s and only $100 more. If I went for the Airmotiv 6s instead of the 5s would the Audio-GD NFB-11.28 still be sufficient enough? Or would I need to consider the 29.28?

Thanks for the cable recommendations, I’ll probably jump straight in and get the good ones as per your selection. 

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So if I were to do it right first time round for the vinyl setup then I should go with the Hegel integrated amp, the Gustard DAC, and the PS Audio Nuwave phono preamp. Is this regardless of which speakers and turntable I choose?

Thanks for the cable guidance, I’ll be sure to keep it in mind when I get them.

Those speakers sound great! I guess I’d be silly to ask if they are powerful enough. l’m definitely looking for clean, warm, and detailed speakers for my jazz and blues vinyls but I also need that deep and crisp punch from the lows to compliment the more modern music that I sometimes listen to (ie. hip hop, house, rock). Will the Hegel bring that out in these speakers?

I’m familiar with dome tweeters and also ribbon tweeters but what are C-CAM tweeters? How does the sound differ to the other two? 

In case I have trouble finding these, could you recommend another tower speaker for me to consider please?


Thanks mesch. So you think I need a sub for the TV setup or will the built in amp and external preamp/DAC bring out enough bass in the Airmotiv 6s? 

The Yamaha is better than the Hegel?

Emotiva 6s.  For $100 more you get larger drivers, twice as much power, twice as much weight in the cabinet.  The 6s will play lower (bass) and will have a more refined sound in comparison, so it is definitely better.  I was just trying to play in your budget sandbox and the 5s was already more than what you were looking at with the Audioengine A5+.  I also threw the more expensive NFB-29.28 out there as an idea because the cheaper 11.28 had limited inputs (only 3 digital inputs and no analog inputs).  The more expensive NFB-29.28 also has two sets of RCA outputs – you could use one of these sets to connect to a subwoofer in the future to help fill in the very low bass.

You could upgrade either the Airmotiv or the Audio-GD DAC and get better sound – or upgrade both.  It all depends on your budget and what you really want.  The 6s will definitely be an improvement in sound experience (but punch/bass for TV).  I think the cheaper NFB-11.28 will be totally fine for your situation.  Just know that you are limited on expandability.

CABLES: I make all my cables by hand.  They use Furutech Rhodium Carbon Fiber XLR connectors and 20awg solid-core OCC copper conductors in a double-braided configuration (making a 17awg interconnect).  The cost would be about $800 for me to make a 1-meter pair for someone.  This has been the best sounding cable with the most resolution I have heard to date.  I have had the opportunity to compare it to the Wire World Eclipse 7 XLR cable at $450 for 1-meter (NOT the Silver Eclipse).  The sound was very similar and the Wire World was an excellent cable.  All the detail was there, but the Wire World was just slightly softer / laid-back in comparison.  The Wireworld design is not quite solid-core (all the conductors are set side-by-side like a ribbon cable), but it is not nearly as bad as stranded conductors either.  For the money, it is an awesome able.

IMPORTANT: On another note, one more thing you should be aware of is the A/C voltage.  I know 220V is usually normal in Europe, where US is 120V.  Some equipment can be configured/switched to use different voltages, some equipment will automatically sense and adjust.  Some equipment will need to be send to manufacture to be modified internally.  You might was to make sure from the seller if a non-adjustable item is configured for your local A/C voltage.

So if I were to do it right first time round for the vinyl setup then I should go with the Hegel integrated amp, the Gustard DAC, and the PS Audio Nuwave phono preamp. Is this regardless of which speakers and turntable I choose?

Yeah, this would be a very fine setup regardless of turntable.  There could be other good choices for phono preamp, and it is obviously based on what you can get shipped to you.

 

There are a couple Silver 10 available on UK Ebay site.  Hopefully, these links come across:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Monitor-Audio-Silver-10-3-way-250w-floorstanding-speakers-in-Black-Oak-/382244206068?epid=1824988012&hash=item58ff87b5f4:g:iowAAOSwojxZlxtn

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Monitor-Audio-Silver-10-Speakers-Pair-Walnut-/332406853482?hash=item4d64fe0f6a:g:HcEAAOSwEIFZ272G

 

The Monitor Audio would definitely have the combination of warm/detail and low end punch that you want and still be in your budget.  They are 4 ohm speakers, so the Hegel would probably be the best integrated out of the list, since it has the largest power supply (critical for low impedance speakers).

There are some B&W CM8 or CM9 speakers on UK Ebay.  The B&W will have a warm/full midrange due to the Kevlar midrange driver.  The Kevlar does have a breakup issue where the midrange is somewhat smeared, but it is still very nice sounding.  However, these B&W speakers will not have the low-end punch that the Monitor Silver 10 has. The B&W’s have very small 5” or 6.5” drivers in comparison to the two 8” drivers in the Silver 10.

I would avoid Tannoy speakers.  In my listening tests, I did not like them because they were so laid back.  I have also heard that Sonus Faber is laid back as well.

Older tweeters were typically soft-dome (which is a synthetic material) or metal dome (such as aluminum or titanium dome).  The soft-dome were very nice sounding and did not have breakup/resonance issues, but they did not have quite as much resolution.  The metal dome tweeters help with resolution, but the metal material would breakup/flex/resonate are the tweeter frequencies and this caused the sound to be very bright/harsh.  The ribbon tweeters do not have this breakup problem, but they also sound laid back and are not as exciting.  The C-CAM tweeters are based on ceramic material, which is an excellent and stiff material. The newer ceramic / beryllium / diamond tweeters have better performance, but they can be a lot more expensive. 

I was using B&W Diamond (D2) series speakers, which I find to be excellent (but they are wayyy out of your price budget).  I was looking to upgrade and the Monitor Audio Platinum was on my list, but I decided to go with B&W D3 because of the diamond tweeters.  The Monitor ribbon tweeters were noted to be not exciting (but still extremely smooth and nice sounding).  I am very happy with the B&W D2 and D3 series.  I put the Silver 10 as a recommendation because it does use the C-CAM tweeter.  For your budget, I can’t think of another speaker I would recommend.  I will say that I am not well versed in speakers and there are a lot of other options out there.

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Regarding your question on sub.  A subwoofer is usually needed when the listener wants extreme bass response in movies/tv.  I’m talking about earthquakes, explosions, massive bass thumps.  It’s a matter of taste.  If you just want to watch “general TV”, the Airmotiv/Audio-GD is fine.  If you were really concerned, you could get the more expensive NFB-29.28 and add a sub.  The Airmotiv will play “full range” and the subwoofer crossover would be set low at about 40-50hz to fill in the very low bass.

The Yamaha is better than the Hegel?

No Way.  This must be a joke! Lol.