Should I Switch Preamps?


Hi all,  I've got the itch to change things up... I'll try not to make this too lengthy.  I've been using an Odd Coda preamp... when looking for a pre in 2010,  I contacted Doug at Coda.  At that time Coda was switching over from the Line Stage CL to a unit that has phono built in CP.... He had 1 CL circuit boards left, but was out of CL chassis's,  but had 1 Windows Continuum 4 Chassis.  So I own a Coda CL that looks like a Continuum 4.  At the time I had the very best Sumo Model Nine that I had ever seen... Back in the my Marcof/SpeakerCraft Days,  we used to Sell Sumo and Modded many.... I snagged a Nine and took it to Ed Martin of Marcof.... He looked at the circuit carefully at one time, he debated Jim B about some things in this amp,  but cost was an issue so the Nine Is what it Is.... Ed took this Nine and transformed it.   Well,  I had a lightening strike about 2 years ago and lost my Nine.  I purchased a Coda Unison 3.1 to use until I decided what to do.... You guys that know this Integrated know that it is 125 watts to 8 and 250 to 4 with the first 35 watts being Class A.....I finally took my Old Sumo to Ed,  the original outputs are obsolete.  he has found a Motorola that he can do a few mods to the amp  and make it work fine...  so I hope to get my old Sumo back with even more improvements soon....  
So my Coda CL.... Coda is so well known for their amps but you just don't hear much about their pre's.... Overall, I have been very happy with this, I've compared it to a Pass X10 and the very picky and Proud X10 owner ended up saying that he couldn't tell them apart. Which isn't surprising considering the Coda heritage.... 
Still,  I have the itch to try something else.... I've decided to sell my Coda integrated and my Coda Pre,  get another pre and use some home brewed Abletec Class D amps until my Sumo is back.... I'm just praying that I don't kick myself for letting my Coda go for a song and getting something that  don't like as well.  
So,  even though my thought has searched through tubes,  in the past,  I got tired of tube rolling and not leaving my pre on and I really think that I'm staying solid state...  My budget is preferred to at $1000 to maybe $1700....
My Shortlist as been:
Jeff Rowland Capri
Conrad Johnson Premier 18LS (but I'd like 2 sets of outputs for a sub)
Audio Research LS-12
Bel Canto Pre 2 or Pre 3
Lastly would consider a Classe Six or CP60 or possibly a Muse Model 3 Signature...
Overall, I prefer the rich organic textured mid range of tubes, but the frequency extensions of SS.  
Overall sound stage is as important to me as frequency balance... 
I've seen at one time or another, every pre on my list within my budget range.  Any opinions or other options are appreciated.  I will most likely list my Integrated and pre here on Agon first along with a Technics SP25 with an ATP-12T arm  that I have filled with dampening putty and it is quite dead.  
So My audiophile brothers and sisters,  please advise. 
Tim 








timlub
Post removed 
@almarg 
Hi Al,  Isn't the rule of thumb to have a 10x delta between input and output impedance?  I have emailed Velodyne about the Input impedance of my sub, haven't heard yet.  But looking a the Audio Research @ 200 ohms single ended and 400 ohms balanced.  I'm wondering if I could get away with that?
Hi Tim,

The rule of thumb guideline is commonly stated that way, but that is a misleading oversimplification IMO. In particular, it does not take into account that designs which use a coupling capacitor at their output, such as the majority of tube-based preamps and source components, will have output impedances that rise significantly at deep bass frequencies from their specified nominal values (which usually are based on a mid-range frequency such as 1 kHz). An example, which is by no means as extreme as many others I have seen, would be the measurements I linked to above for the CJ preamp you were considering.

I would state the rule of thumb guideline as follows (I’m quoting this from a post I made in another recent thread:

The input impedance of the amp (or other component that is receiving a line-level input signal) should be at least 10 times the output impedance of the preamp or line-level source component that is driving it, at the frequency within the audible range for which that output impedance is highest. Which in the case of preamps or source components having capacitively coupled outputs (such as the majority of tube preamps) will usually be at 20 Hz. And the output impedance at that frequency will often be far higher than the specified output impedance (which is usually based on a mid-range frequency such as 1 kHz), because the impedance of a capacitor rises as frequency decreases.

That doesn’t mean that there will necessarily be a problem if the guideline is not met. It depends on how the output impedance **varies** as a function of frequency. What it means is that there **won’t** be an impedance compatibility problem if the guideline **is** met.

If Stereophile has reviewed the preamp or source component, the measurements section of the review will usually indicate the output impedance at 20 Hz as well as at other frequencies. But if only a nominal impedance can be determined, such as a manufacturer’s specification that is presumably at a mid-range frequency, to be safe I would suggest a ratio of 50x or preferably even 75x.
Regarding the ARC LS-12, though, I would consider all of this to be superseded by ARC’s recommendation of a 10K minimum load, as indicated at the arcdb.ws link I provided.

As you are probably aware, the load impedance seen by the preamp would be the product (multiplication) of the input impedances of the sub and the power amp divided by the sum of those two numbers. The result will be less than either of the two numbers.

Also, if you were to connect the balanced output of the preamp to one of those components and the unbalanced output to the other, that result would most likely apply to the signal on XLR pin 2 (as well as to the signal on the RCA connector), but not to the signal on XLR pin 3, since on schematics I have seen for various other ARC preamp designs XLR pin 2 and the RCA connector are wired directly together. (And my understanding is that it is not uncommon for that to be done in many designs from other manufacturers). Which is probably just as undesirable as applying the excessive load to both of the signals in the balanced signal pair, and perhaps even more undesirable since it would unbalance the impedances and the amplitudes of the two balanced signal lines, at least slightly.

Best regards,
-- Al


This could be helpful to others,  thanks to @almarg     I decided to contact Audio Research as the LS12 has been high on my list...
The outputs single ended and balanced on Audio Research Preamps are indeed paralleled... So there could be significant issues driving more than one device.  I have also emailed Velodyne,   looking for the input impedance of my sub,  as of now,  they have not answered.  If I get this info,  I'll post it.
For all of those with the great advice given,  at this minute,  I am leaning toward spending a few more dollars and waiting for a Jeff Rowland Capri S2 to show up on the used market.  Depending on what Velodyne tells me,  I suppose the Audio Research could still be in play.  I am hesitant about the AR because of so little info about its sound quality.
So I'm going to be the voice of evil here.  Sorry Tim.  I'm in the same boat as you and I value the same sonic traits you're looking for.  I really like my SS pre but am just looking for something different and perhaps a little bit more organic sounding.  Your Coda sounds like a pretty darn good pre, and you've obviously already compared it to some other fine SS pres without hearing much if any improvement.  Not sure you're really going to find something significantly "better" or "different" in the SS realm at your price point, and if that's the case then what's the point, right?  That's my issue as well. 

I've decided to try tubes, and the preamp seems like the best place to do it as long as it doesn't chow expensive tubes.  I'm seriously considering giving a Sachs SP14 a try, and it's in your price range new.  He gives a (admittedly short) three-day trial period, so what the hell?  C'mon -- I dare ya.  He has identified tubes that work very well with his design so rolling should be nil, but I have no idea on impedance or sub issues so there's still that.  

So here I am trying to suck you back into tubes.  What can I say?  Misery loves company.  Best of luck.