2. analog
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My personal experience with Direct Drive versus Belt Drive

This is my personal , yet limited experience, with a DD versus Belt Drive. This A/B took place in the same system. with literally the same tonearm. I am choosing not to mention brands at this point. I feel by keeping the brand out of the discussion, anyone who contributes to the the thread (myself included), can be a bit more forthcoming. I am not big on audiophile jargon, so I will keep this short and sweet. I started with DD, in a system which I was very familiar with. The room of course, was different. The DD struck me as near perfect. I could hear the starting and stopping on a dime, and the near perfect timing that many have associated with the DD.  It didn't take long at all for me to conclude this was not my cup of tea. It satisfied my brain, but didn't move my heart. Maybe I was used to the imperfect sound of belt drives, and it was indeed that imperfection, that made for an emotional experience. Who knows? (-: Fast forward to the belt drive.... Again, same actual arm. It sounded more analog to me. Decay was much more easy to hear, along with subtle spatial cues. Was it the less than perfect timing, that was allowing me to now hear these things I could not with the DD?  I have no clue! What I was sure about was the emotion of the music had returned.
fjn04
tomwh
150 posts
 
Hi has2be

Your post may be the most intelligent thing I have read on this forum.  Your mass vs electronics statement alone, should be a must read for anyone who actually stops and thinks.

The latest is idler drive comeback.  I wonder where the Rumble police are???

I would be interested on your own impressions of the various types of tables.  And if you where forced to build the best (By your standards) which of the main 3 drive systems would you choose.

Thanks Tom


lewm
12,453 posts
 
Has2be, I don’t disagree with the substance of what you wrote, but I am a bit puzzled by the following phrase: "at a time when everyone was dumping belt to manufacture DD because the electronic end was at a rabid pace of growth and precision and yet , Micro Seiki went back to making high end belt/string drives." Just what period of audio history are you thinking about when you write this? The way I experienced it, in the 50s (before I really was a "player" in this game, but not before I was exposed to music in our home), idler drive was if anything the predominant mode (think "Garrard"; Garrard changers were common in even the most sophisticated systems). AR changed the game in the late 60s, when I was finally able to buy my first audio system, with the X model, which of course was the most basic belt drive imaginable. But in the 70s, when the Japanese got into the market in a big way, direct-drive was very fashionable but kind of mid-range-y in quality. True, there were some high end DD turntables made in Japan during a brief golden era, but in parallel the very most expensive turntables were BD (Thorens, Goldmund Reference, etc). By the late 70s/early 80s, DD kind of got dumped in favor of belt drive, largely due to the efforts of Harry Pearson and the Absolute Sound credo. I’m sure Gordon Holt had something to say on this subject, but I don’t recall what it was. Anyway, by the mid-80s, as vinyl dipped in popularity, BD was thought of as the only way to go among aficionados. My point is, I don’t recall any time when belt drive was eclipsed by DD, even temporarily. As for Micro Seiki, they were always basically a high quality BD company; their DD turntables were never competitive with the best of the breed, and I don’t think they ever intended them to be. It's interesting how differently we view the history.
halcro's avatar
halcro
2,664 posts
 
I think Lew has the history in better context than has2be....😎
tomwh
150 posts
 
So you guys just went off on on a history lesson you did not even research.  Take a little time, as I just did, and pull up a Micro Seiko site.  To say they never where a high end company???  Also if you notice they built both high end dd and bd's at the same time.

The sad part is not you got your history off but you went off topic on the guy who brought reality to the thread.

So if you read between the lines maybe you would ask yourself.  Can you make electronics stabilize a motor on lighter platter (speed/noise/etc) as well or better than a massive belt driven platter.

I realize this is not a DIY forum so I should shut up and let you guys have fun writing.  I was just hoping that Has2be would share his real life experiences with the better tables he has own.

Also if you are to lazy to google information  I will give you a couple of clues DDX-1000 , BL-91 should get you rolling.

Enjoy the ride
Tom
fjn04 OP
1,561 posts
 

OP chiming back in here (-: This is interesting stuff, but in the here and now, I'm thinking modern tables. I bet the new Technics is wonderful, but I would prefer more tonearm options. It seems like many here have been through analog battle.... Any thoughts on a table and arm. Could spend 10-12K, but would love to do it for 6-8K including arm. Tonality above all else. I would never want it mistaken for a digital front end.

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