Fidelity Research FR-64 vs. FR-54

Dear @lewm : "   I have never used the DA307 .. """

that makes a diference in  your opinion vs mine because I listened the FR 64 and 66 for years in my system even I still own the 64 that I do not use but in good working condition.

As I posted I owned the 307 and other than its very good design and its damping mechanism you can read there that was along the Lustre GST 801 the pioneers of magnetic antiskating mechanism.

You can be sure that Denon knew what the did t not only with its tonearms but with  their items catalogue.

Yes, you as several FR owners like FR tonearms tonearms because its distortion levels but for me the FR ones the only real tonearm characteristic that it has is that can hold a cartridge but for me is only a shiny piece of metal, nothing more.

Regrads and enjoy the music,
R.

Raul, You just couldn't resist the dig about distortion-lovers, could you? Some day you may wake up and realize that your consciousness is not the only one in the universe.  I hope that happens for you, soon. We are not all figments of your imagination.  I expressed my opinion on the DA307 design, not its performance, and my opinion still stands.  For what it's worth, I have indeed heard the DA307, in other systems over my lifetime.  It's certainly not a "bad" tonearm, and I never said it was. As to the FR64S, I am reporting my listening impressions, NOT my opinion of its design.  You say (elsewhere) that you are always learning.  How can you learn anything from anyone else, when your mind is so closed to all other opinion? In fact, can you name one other knowledgable audiophile who derides the FR64S/66S as much as you do?  Perhaps you can name one other than yourself.  I can name 10 who disagree.

Bdunne, Just to be clear, there is absolutely nothing wrong with my DA307.  The guy who returned it was just looking for an excuse.  I sold it to him at a very low price, and I believe he bought it with the idea of flipping it on Audiogon, in order to make a few bucks. When that failed, he looked for a reason to return it.  Since I cannot be bothered with such charlatans, and since the amount of money involved was small, I took it back (and returned his money) in good faith that at least I would get it back intact (with an intact cuing lever).  I have since replaced the lever (it's plastic and therefore easy to break) with a device I built myself, made of metal.  If you want it, you can have it for a low price, but a price that reflects the fact it's in good shape.  My DP80 is and was in mint condition, and so is this DA307.

lewm

....As to the FR64S, I am reporting my listening impressions, NOT my opinion of its design.  You say (elsewhere) that you are always learning.  How can you learn anything from anyone else, when your mind is so closed to all other opinion? In fact, can you name one other knowledgable audiophile who derides the FR64S/66S as much as you do?  Perhaps you can name one other than yourself.  I can name 10 who disagree.

Now you can name 11 who disagree with Raul. ;|
I used an FR64S pickup arm for years, originally mounting it on an Oracle Delphi III turntable. It was an outstanding pickup arm, perhaps one of the best arms that also include an interchangeable headshell. I sold it to a friend who still uses it, and I'm amazed whenever I hear his system - the FR64S still  stands up well to even the best arms of today. I replaced it with an SME V - a move I've never regretted - but I still think highly of the FR.

Of course, the FR arms are long out of production. Perhaps Raul's sample was bought used and has issues. Perhaps it's not a good match with whatever else he's using with it. Regardless of the explanation, Raul's indictment of the FR64S ,and his repeated criticisms of it, reveal much more about Raul than they do the arm. There are reasons why well-preserved samples of this arm command top-dollar today, and it's not because it generates distortions that listeners like. In fact, the truth is the opposite: the FR64S is a remarkably neutral arm ... even though it's not perfect.

Dear @lewm :   """  How can you learn anything from anyone else, when your mind is so closed to all other opinion?  """

I don't know why you can think that in the subject of FR undamped pivot tonearm design your opinion and other one opinios are rigth and I'm wrong.

Why can'not it be the other way around?

Makes no sense to me and let you explain my take here:

- my MUSIC/audio main target is to listen/hear what's in the recording. If this is not your main target then we have nothing to talk on that and any other home audio subject.

- all of us are distortion lovers. To what kind of distortions?, the ones on each one home audio system.

- what kind of parameters take I in count to evaluate any home audio systems and its differences in between?: mainly the distortion levels, every kind of internal/external home audio system distortion.

- almost every " decent " audiophile  use some way or the other different kind of home audio system damping depending where is used that damping.

- we can name some of those damping system tools: 

   room treatment,  TT footers,  TT platforms,  damped racks,  TT mats,  TT clamps, daped headshells, damped tonearms by design like: VPI or Triplanar and several others,  cartridge suspension dampers, cartridge body design shape to " kill "internal resonances/distortions, damping on tonearm boards, damping on speakers, damping on speaker crossover, damping on electronic chasis/box, damping on tubes it self, damping footers on any kind of system electronic item/link, damping on cables construction,   damping,     damping,   damping,    damping,......... damping everywhere in a home audio system: this is the rule and it's not for " free ".

- that everywhere damping has a sole/unique reason: TO HEAR WHAT IS IN THE RECORDING and not to all generated home audio system distortions.

The main target in that very hard work of system damping is to " kill " all kind of distortions or at least mantain it at " extremely " low/minumum levels.


AND, AGAIN AND AGAIN, YOU AND ALL THE OTHER LOVERS ( including the " 11 " one. ) OF FR NON DAMPED TONEARMS  SUDDENLY " DISCOVERY THAT THE FR DESIGN REALLY DAMPS THE DISTORTIONS THAT TRAVEL  AND SOME THAT ARE GENERATED BY THE NON DAMPED DESIGN ! ! ! ! 

and    YES AND: NO ONE BUT ME AND J.CARR DETECTED THOSE DISTORTION LEVELS????


As I said: makes no sense to me. Makes sense to you?

If yes then that's why I said that we are distortion lovers. I'm too but with way lower distortion levels than you. At least I'm aware of it.


Regards and enjoy the music,
R.

- what kind of parameters take I in count to evaluate any home audio systems and its differences in between?: mainly the distortion levels, every kind of internal/external home audio system distortion.

Raul,
Always talking about distortion, but can you even prove the distortion level of your system is lower than any of our by any measure, other than the convenient saying of “I know because my ears are trained” ?