2. amps-preamps
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To Pre or not to Pre? Here is my take

I remember reading in many places that the best preamp was no preamp.
Finally in a position to test that theory
Equipment is Esoteric sa-50 player, audio research ls preamp, bat vk600 power amp.
So I let everything warm up for an hour or so and then played some Halestorm through the system, for anybody who is not familiar with Mz. Hale, she is similar to a smoother Bonnie Tyler with more range! Her band has some great bass guitar and drum work as well so a nice little workout.
After 5 or 6 tracks I changed over to powering the bat direct from the esoteric using the same cardas xlr interconnects.
It only took a couple of tracks to confirm
I just did not like this sound, bass was much thinner, soundstage not as wide, vocals not as smokey for want of a better description of Mz. Hales style.
Hooked the ls2 back and joy was restored!

What does this tell me?
That absolutely the ls preamp is adding its own sonic signature to the mix, in theory that equates to probably a more "dirty" sound but to me this was the sound I preferred.
Now obviously no 2 people listening to the same gear are going to hear the same thing, its impossible!
However playing MY music on MY gear the sound going through the ls2 preamp was the sound that I wanted to hear, end of story.
Oh trust me its not just value perception, I sort of WANTED the sound to be better without the ls2 preamp as I could have then sold it and spent the money elsewhere! 
I know there will be lots of people who can spout theories to prove I am full of it but the only judge of the sound of your own system worth worrying about is yourself!
128x128uberwaltz
georgehifi's avatar
georgehifi
10,312 posts
 
uberwaltz


Before you spend big bucks on a newer AR pre on a hope it will be better than what you have now, try this with the volume on the Esoteric full up or if it has the fixed output. For $49, and it’s refundable as well.
http://schiit.com/products/sys

Or the passive or tube one, also refundable
http://schiit.com/products/saga.


Or the balanced, passive tube active, or solid state active.
http://schiit.com/products/freya


Cheers George
bassdude
458 posts
 
As I've posted elsewhere on Audiogon, I compared both the Creek OBH 22 SS Passive Preamp, and the ARC Ref 3 Tube Preamp.  I got the Passive Pre, initially, because I wanted to eliminate the preamp, but retain a remote volume control.  

The Passive Preamp did seem to offer a bit greater clarity... but... the Ref 3 Preamp seemed to have almost as much clarity, with a slight bit more richness, warmth, and liquid body... and... perhaps a bit larger soundstage and air.  These differences were pretty small, but enough for my wife to quickly decide she preferred the sound with the Ref 3 Preamp - called it more real, and life-like.

However, many would be very happy with the Passive Preamp, especially considering the premium price of the Ref 3 Preamp (10-15 times the Passive Preamp) to produce a very slight improvement in sound.  
uberwaltz's avatar
uberwaltz OP
13,381 posts
 
Very Interesting products George, however it would have to be the balanced as I am using xlr and the bat only takes xlr input unless you buy the xlr to rca adapters
more food for thought....
pmiller115's avatar
pmiller115
95 posts
 
I have read and I believe I understand what you are suggesting. What I would also suggest, in reference to your characterization of what you heard as "dirty" sound, is, despite the absolute negative connotation of distortion as always undesirable, that some forms of distortion can actually be desirable. What you are hearing may or may not be distortion but the point is that we all have our preferences as far as what we think is "good" or "not good" sound. As a case in point, it is my understanding that Oppo has publicly admitted that they are attempting to purposely introduce "some desirable" distortion into the output of their universal players. This seems absolutely contrary to what I think many of us have been taught over the course of following this hobby. Something that has always puzzled me is that most concerts we attend generally include massive amounts of distortion generated from one source or another but yet we strive to produce the sound of a live performance in our listening rooms and if we hear, or think we hear, distortion we think that takes us away from the live performance experience.
treebeard1
148 posts
 
I have been fighting this same issue.  I have a Cambridge Audio 851N connected directly to my Halo A21 via balanced cables and it sounds very analytical too me with a small soundstage.  Speakers are KEF R300.

I almost think my second system with lesser components sounds more musical (B&K ST2140, Rotel RC-980BX,  Paradigm Monitor 9s).  I'm in the process of combining my two systems and will be able to test when I throw my Rotel pre into the mix. I think the room where my second system lives is much better suited to music so that could also play a part.
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