Upgrade Opinions, Thorens vs VPI

Raymond,

What I am saying is that if someone has said they have a 3K budget, and some of the potential solutions is to throw money at an old table, in hopes of making it a better table, then who am I to say they can't???

I'm noone.......

But:

If someone is going to throw a lot of money, and a lot of time and effort into a "creative" effort to improve on a design that obviously needs a lot of improving on, and they get to the end and the result is only a fraction as successful overall as going and purchasing a current state of the art high value product that will absolutely KILL!!!! the creative exercise.....

then in my case, I'd buy the new and find creative release somewhere else, because in my 30 year history as an audiofool, the end result is the important thing, that I get the absolute highest level of performance I can possibly achieve and that the sound transports me to a live performance, or brings a live performance to me......

Will a Prime get him there better than a home modified Thorens?

I say it will......and I also say the comparison will not be even close.....

I've owned Thorens, Dual and several VPI tables including Scout, Classic 1, Classic 3, TNT 2nd generation and recently an HR-X.  

I am now going to try the suspended world with a new Oracle Delphi MK VI 2nd Gen and an Oracle SME V arm/Transig Proteus cartridge.......

Which I will immediately start trying to improve upon in my garage.....
LOL

Ray et al.... What I’m saying is that sure...a better turntable, better plinth, better this, that, its all better....but I predict, that putting the very best turntable in the system with these components would not be heard. The Thorens is a very good turntable....The VPI may be better, but the difference in sound on this system is neglegable.

No doubt.....just buying a Prime will beat a 160 series maxed out mod. However, I think the only thing he has left is to replace the tonearm on his, as other mods have been done. 

Might as well, I say. That is only 500 as opposed to 3000. Upgrade the cartridge...phono stage and enjoy. Then see if the table is really the next step....if so, save up for a Prime. 

Or, just buy a Prime now. You can't go wrong with that move

BTW, Matt and Harry just modded the 3d arm. Darn......don't they know how to stay out of the Garage? lol

Harry modded the arm, Michael Fremer introduced it right after his Prime review, then yesterday on Facebook, Mat said that there’s no way they are going to offer the mod, because drilling the 3D arm carries too much risk of damage......general consensus is the sound was about the same.....introduced mostly to negate the criticism of the unipivot being wobbly when cueing a record.....

My Thorens will be maxed out for the most part, after I replace the tonearm. The other mods I've done have improved the sound slightly, but I have a feeling that a new arm will yield the greatest improvement and elevate it to another level. I already have the armboard for the Jelco, so in all, it would set me back about $1100 to install the new arm and a better cartridge (considering a 10x5). 

Of course, that's about one third of what it would likely cost to get into a Prime. I highly doubt a Prime will sound 3x better than my fully modded Thorens, as my table already sounds very good to my ears. My gut feeling is that I'll be well into the territory of diminishing returns once my Thorens is maxed out. I'm also thinking I might get more bang for my buck if I replace the tonearm and spend 2k on a cartridge, rather than spend 3k on a VPI and 500 on a cartridge. 

I'm fairly mechanically inclined and I enjoy modifying and improving things. Part of me feels it would be a shame to relegate my Thorens to the closet after all I've invested. It went from a humble $200 Craigslist find to a beautiful (piece of art in my view) table that produces very satisfying sound in its current state. 

If a Jelco tonearm and better cartridge yields a 20% improvement in sound, I think I could live happily with my Thorens for a long time.