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Reference DACS: An overall perspective

There has been many threads the last few months regarding the sonic signature of some of the highest regarded reference DACS (Dcs,Meitner,Ensemble,Audio Note,Zanden,Reimyo,Accustic Arts) here on the GON. I have been very fortunate to audtion many of these wonderful pieces in my home or friend's systems. I wanted to share, in a systematic way, my impressions/opinions with you GON members for a two reasons: 1)That my experiences might be helpful to fellow members interested in audtioning these DACS. 2)Starting an interesting discussion regarding the different "sonic flavors" of these reference digital front ends. I totally agree with the statement, "if you have not heard it you don't have an opinion". Therefore, I have no comments regarding DACS from Weiss,Goldmund,Audio Aero and Burmester because I have never had the pleasure of audtioning them. I would love to hear from members who have and share their experiences with us. My overall impression is that these DACS(Dcs,Meitner,Ensemble,Audio Note,Zanden,Reimyo,Accustic Arts) can be grouped into two molar categories regarding their overall sonic signature. By the way, all of them can throw a large/deep soundstage with excellent layering in the acoustic space with "air" around individual players on that stage. However, than they start to part company into two major categories. Category #1) These DACS "flavors" revolve around pristine clarity, fine sharp details,speed,very extended top/bottom frequencies,and great PRAT. These DACS never sound "etched" or "in your face" but are more "upfront" then "layed back" in their presentation. The DACS, to my ear's, that go into this bracket are Dcs,Ensemble,Meitner. My personnal favorite in this group is the Ensemble, which I owned for two years. These DACS remind me of the sonic signature of speakers such as Wilson,Thiel,Dynaudio, Focal/JM Labs. Category #2) These DACS "flavors" revolve around a "musical/organic" sense, natural timbres,and an easy flowing liquidity. Their "less forward" presentation my give the impression of less detail, but I think in this case its an illusion fostered by their more relaxed/organic manner. The DACS, to my ear's, that go into this bracket are Audio Note,Zanden,Reimyo,Accustic Arts. I did find that the tube DACS did not have the top/bottom frequency extenstion and PRAT of the SS DACS in this bracket. For me, the Accustic Arts DAC1-MK3 gave me the best of both categories, therefore it is now the resident DAC in my system. These DACS remind me of the sonic signature of speakers such as Magnepan,Von Schweikert,Sonus Faber. Well, it's all just my opinion regarding these digital pieces, but I hope this post was at least informative/somewhat interesting and would lend itself to other GON members sharing their impressions, not about what DAC is the "BEST" in the world, but your personnal taste and synergy with your system.
teajay
melbguy1
1,438 posts
 
08-04-15: Wisnon
Bodhi,

Very elegant and well appreciated response. I am sure the Vitus is bringing you immense pleasure and I love your enthusiasm.

Adam has traded up to a fully internally balanced GG and is currently waiting on delivery, according to his post on another forum. The Lampi 211 amps are also balanced so the combo of the amps and the Dac with bal output PCM chip and dual mono DSD means that the digital is balance from source to speaker and add the differential summator to that and all digital noise is cancelled. The 211 amps are 85wpc with NO phase splitter so have SET SQ with push-pull type power. So far only Joe has this and he is in heaven, reportedly. he will move up from a B7 Bal to a GG Bal soon. I have not heard this combo yet.

Regarding DSD, its not just the 6K or so albums out there, but the ability to use a powerful computer and upconvert PCM to high rate DSD with HQ Player, especially if this is to your liking (it is for many).

We are just chatting though...not trying to convince you of anthing, as there are many roads to nirvana and you seem happily along the way. Kudos to you...

Are you Aussie?
Sorry about the late reply. I've had dramas with A'gon. Seems the only way they could maintain my 7 years of history was to reinstate my old member name. Big fail for A'gon...

Anyway, I digress. True balanced configuration from source to speaker is a fundamental design principle of Vitus Signature series gear also. As I said, I think of these brands more as peers than anything else. With that said, not everyone has the room for mono blocks or the inclination to baby sit tubes. In my apartment situation, I only have room for a stereo power amp of not much greater size than an Aesthetix Atlas & need to drive my S5's which are are a moderately difficult load being 88db into a 4 ohm load with a 2.4 ohm dip & 72 degree phase angle @40 Hz. My next Vitus amp (SS-025) is a pure power amp doing 320W kl AB and 15W in kl A, and has 160,000 uF capacitance. Despite their power, the 211 balanced mono's can't match the Vitus's power and control, especially in one chassis.

Joe is in Heaven every time he changes components, lol!

Re: Up-converting files. I'm not a fan of it. I had a switchable up-sampling on my Ayon CD-5s and actually preferred it switched off.

I agree there are many roads to Nirvana. Some people want to stuff around with tubes, up-sampling and controlling invisible media via a tablet, whilst others want to be able to leave their amp on most of the time, drive a 2 channel home theatre system & interact with their digital media, read the liner notes and own the actual cd, instead of just a file on a hard drive. Different horses for different courses.

Cheers for your congrats. I have a big update coming around the start of the new year & will post my system thread then.
jon2020's avatar
jon2020
982 posts
 
http://www.burmester.de/en/Products/151-Musiccenter.html

Great review in current issue of TAS. But price is too steep to swallow.
Pro : Front USB A-port
Con : PCM only up to 192/24; price(Ouch!)
sunandmusic
27 posts
 
Waking up this (interesting) thread. Anyone heard the Discrete TotalDAC units? I have buddies who rave about these DACs sounding so smooth and natural and I have heard the TotalDAC Dual in another system and it was damb good, couldn't fault it. It had that wow factor of the over the top detail DACs but without any fatigue or boredom setting in. It just kept giving, no volume adjusting or track swopping, just play it loud and sit down.

I have an Audio Note DAC 4.1 which I was thinking of selling on and looking for something 'better' but still in camp 2 i.e. warm and natural rather than detail freak. I do however like speed and dynamics so trying to grab the best of both types.

Has anyone got / heard the Audio Note DAC 5 Special and how would it rank in the current crop of better DACs around? It is too long in the tooth now, maybe it is better consigned to history, and possibly always was overpriced. The 4.1 is still 'real world' prices (just).

The new bred of discrete DACs seem the way to go for a natural sound with the pace and detail of the better DS DACs. Any opinions would be great guys.
dragon_vibe
430 posts
 

Having owned both MSB Dacs, The Analog and the Diamond. I can tell you from first hand experience. It is not something I would suggest unless of course your not into music but rather showing off your personal Ego. Sometimes price does not reflect the musicality. I learnt it the hard way


larryi
3,718 posts
 
Sunandmusic,

I got to participate in a blind shootout between a 3.1, 4.1 and a 5 Special.  I have also heard the DAC-5 Signature in a friend's system.   These are all very musical sounding devices.  In the shootout, I thought the 4.1 was really the sweetspot.  It was considerably better than the 3.1, and only slightly less resolving and detailed than the 5 Special (at significantly lower price).  The shootout came about when a customer brought into the dealership a 4.1 he owned to compare with the 5 Special, and perhaps, to trade in the 4.1 to get the 5.  Another customer, who happened to be in the store at that time, ran home to get his 3.1 for the shootout, because there was the possibility of trading it in for the 4.1 if the owner of the 4.1 traded up.  As it turned out, both customers ended up executing the three-way trade.  

I have only heard a direct comparison between the DAC 5 Special and one other DAC.  That other DAC is something made by an Italian builder of tube gear (phono, preamps, linestages, DACs, crossovers and field coil power supplies) named Aldo D'Urso.  I thought Aldo's DAC, which is much cheaper than the DAC 5, sounded better in most, but not all respects.  The Aldo DAC was actually better than the DAC 5 in midrange texture and sounded more harmonically dense (more saturated sound), but, the DAC 5 was a bit more open and airy on the top end.  Overall, I would take the Aldo DAC, but, the comparison was pretty close.  If you are at all interested in the DAC 5 or the Aldo DAC, you can contact Deja Vu Audio (dejavu-audio.com) and speak to the proprietor, Vu Hoang (he sells both).

I admit that I have not tried to keep up with the latest developments in the DAC/digital front.  If it is like any other component type, I would not expect there to have been much in the way of real improvements for some time now.  The big changes have been more a matter of convenience.  I DO like very much the convenience of making music selections from a server (Naim NDS).
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