Is New Vinyl Exempt from Loudness Wars?

LOL! No it didn't. Well, maybe others will, but I won't argue it. That's been done far more than well enough already, and I've nothing to add.

Lp2cd - thanks for that information.
Never knew that album existed, will listen to the sample tracks to see if I like the music.

Looking to learn, if I can ask you when you say.

That is not to say it couldn’t be produced to LP, but it would undoubtedly require significant compromises in dynamic range and bass response, which, knowing them, they would likely be reluctant to do.

I discussed in the first post here how my talks with that engineer, discussed how with digital files going to vinyl, depending on the loudness factor, quality of the files; the bass may need to filtered or mono’ed at certain Hz, along with a filter at the High frequencies - 16k hz for example. It sounds to me that the album you reference was originally recorded very carefully so that there is little of this loudness problem and of good quality?
Fair statement ?
So when you say significant compromises with the vinyl, are you referring to the physical media itself involved, and maybe that few people remain, that have the skill to do the cutting properly ? And the plants the discs go to - using old equipment and crude techniques. We have all seen how they make records on youtube.

Is this what you were referring to? or something else...

Just one example of vinyl compromise.
My understanding when they cut a record they start with large circles and grooves on the outside and it becomes smaller and smaller as you get inside. In order to accommodate 20 minutes of music the inside circles are smaller in diameter. Harder to track with a pivot tonearm especially with antiskate. Now I have Lp records from artists whose team of people recognize this vinyl design problem, and have put a single album record on two discs; the music does not go much past the physical record’s mid travel point. This is just one example imo of trying to deal with the compromise of this crude piece of plastic.

This part has me curious.
If I can make one more reference to the Natalie Merchant Tigerlily album and what I found surprising. Btw just an album I picked out and looked up. Am a huge fan of hers and her music gets a lot of play in my rooms.

It’s a mid 90’s album 1995 and they stopped using the SPAR coding on cd’s by then. Is the music CD - DDD or ADD ? Some info from the album insert.

Recorded Bearsville Studios Dec 1994 - March 1995
Additional recording The Club House, Germantown NY
Mixed RPM studios, NY,
Additional Mixing Sony Studios, NY
Mastered Bob Ludwig, Gateway Mastering Studios, Portland ME.

The interesting part for me going back to that DR database album link. btw - I am not associated with it and imo the information it provides is just that - information.
if one clicks on this link

http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=natalie+merchant&album=tigerlily+

According to this DR database the Vinyl versions of this album have the highest dynamic range over the CD and HD tracks. Why is this ?

Lp2cd do you have an opinion on this based on your experiences ?
Are we looking at a limitation of the gear being used to generate the data from the database itself ?

Anyone else have an opinion on this?

Curious.

and if you analize the RIAA curve you can see that exist a significative compression in the bass frequency range that latter on the phono stage  have to be " restablished " through another RIAA eq. degradation mechanism.

This is absolute nonsense. The RIAA curve has nothing to do with compression!

"they will send the master digital file with the understanding that the LP mastering engineer will deal with it as needed. "

Isn’t that pretty much what they sent the CD mastering engineer as well?

Yes, it is. And when the CD mastering engineer gets a hold of it, at the very least it will get normalized (which is actually a good thing), but will likely also get compressed and may see some EQ. It has to work in a car! So this is why you see the LP showing greater dynamic range.

And when the CD mastering engineer gets a hold of it, at the very least it will get normalized (which is actually a good thing), but will likely also get compressed and may see some EQ. It has to work in a car! So this is why you see the LP showing greater dynamic range.

But the ratings in the database for vinyl are higher than the HD tracks too, according to the DR database.  And according to this HD Tracks link.  

http://www.hdtracks.com/tigerlily

There are 96/24 files available.
Btw - I don't know of anyone that plays HD tracks in their car. :^)

It gets worse, trust me. Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water.

DR scale
bad
01 02 03 04 05 06 07

Transition
08 09 10 11 12 13

Good
14 15 16 17 18 19 20

SACDs compressed, a few examples...

The Who Tommy Deluxe Edition [SACD 2] i 2003 10 07 11 lossless Unknown
The Who Tommy Deluxe Edition [SACD 1] i 2003 08 06 10 lossless Unknown
The Who Live at The Royal Albert Hall (SACD) 2000 09 07 14 lossless Unknown

Peter Gabriel Us [SACD] i 2003 09 07 12 lossless Unknown

Bob Dylan. Street-Legal [SACD, SACD layer] 2003 08 08 09 lossless CD
Bob Dylan. Oh Mercy [SACD-SACD layer] 2003 11 08 14 lossless CD

Jeff Beck Blow By Blow [SACD] i 2006. 09 08 10 lossless Unknown

Pink Floyd. Dark Side of the Moon [SACD] i 2003 10 09 11 lossless Downmix