Historically vinyl gets high marks, but no format is completely exempt from overly agressive dynamic range compression. Not vinyl, not SACD, not Japanese SHM CDs, not even hi res downloads.
Is New Vinyl Exempt from Loudness Wars?
I'm seeing new vinyl sold in many unexpected places these days.
For those who have bought a lot of new vinyl, I'm wondering if these tend to be mastered differently from similar newer CD remasters that often show effects of the "Loudness Wars"?
Is it a mixed bag perhaps? Much like CDs?
I wonder because if I knew there was a different mastering done for new vinyl I might consider buying some if I knew.
But new vinyl is expensive and I would not want to get essentially the same end result in regards to sound quality as I would get with CD for much less.
Just wondering.
For those who have bought a lot of new vinyl, I'm wondering if these tend to be mastered differently from similar newer CD remasters that often show effects of the "Loudness Wars"?
Is it a mixed bag perhaps? Much like CDs?
I wonder because if I knew there was a different mastering done for new vinyl I might consider buying some if I knew.
But new vinyl is expensive and I would not want to get essentially the same end result in regards to sound quality as I would get with CD for much less.
Just wondering.
Showing 16 responses by geoffkait
"The Dr database reveals. http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=adele&album= Adele 25 2015 ratings 05 - 04 - 08 lossless CD Adele 25 2015 11 - 09 - 12 lossless Vinyl Adele 25 (96/24 LP Needle Drop) 2015 11 - 09 -12 lossless Vinyl Why is vinyl rated higher ? Has anyone heard both the cd and vinyl versions ? Curious....." I suspect the real question is, why are both formats so POOR? You know, on the Dynamic Range Database the lowest number for a rating of Good Dynamic Range is 14. The number 8-13 are transitional, and 1-7 represent BAD dynamic range. If I'm not mistaken there’s actually a recording somewhere in the dynamic range database with a 0, zero, goose egg for dynamic range. So for the Adele releases listed above on the Database, both CD and vinyl, the numbers for Average, Lowest and Highest Dynamic Range are what should probably be described as abysmal. |
It gets worse, trust me. Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water. DR scale bad 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 Transition 08 09 10 11 12 13 Good 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 SACDs compressed, a few examples... The Who Tommy Deluxe Edition [SACD 2] i 2003 10 07 11 lossless Unknown The Who Tommy Deluxe Edition [SACD 1] i 2003 08 06 10 lossless Unknown The Who Live at The Royal Albert Hall (SACD) 2000 09 07 14 lossless Unknown Peter Gabriel Us [SACD] i 2003 09 07 12 lossless Unknown Bob Dylan. Street-Legal [SACD, SACD layer] 2003 08 08 09 lossless CD Bob Dylan. Oh Mercy [SACD-SACD layer] 2003 11 08 14 lossless CD Jeff Beck Blow By Blow [SACD] i 2006. 09 08 10 lossless Unknown Pink Floyd. Dark Side of the Moon [SACD] i 2003 10 09 11 lossless Downmix |
Let’s take a brief look at Led Zeppelin vinyl, courtesy of the Unofficial Dynamic Range Database. Led Zeppelin Houses Of The Holy (2014 Vinyl) i 2014 11 10 12 lossless Vinyl Led Zeppelin Houses of the Holy [First UK Pressing] i 1973 13 11 14 lossless Vinyl Led Zeppelin Houses of the Holy 1973 13 12 14 lossless Vinyl Led Zeppelin Led Zeppelin IV [AT/GP] i 1975 11 11 13 lossless Vinyl Led Zeppelin Led Zeppelin IV (2014 vinyl) 2014 10 09 11 lossless Vinyl Led Zeppelin Led Zeppelin IV [vinyl] i 1982. 11 11 14 lossless Vinyl Led Zeppelin Presence [Vinyl] i 2015 11 10 13 lossless Vinyl Led Zeppelin Presence i 2006 14 13 15 lossless Vinyl Led Zeppelin Presence [vinyl] i 1987 14 12 16 lossless Vinyl Led Zeppelin Led Zeppelin III (1970 USA LP Vinyl) i 1970 12 10 13 lossy Vinyl Led Zeppelin Led Zeppelin III i 2014 11 10 12 lossless Vinyl Led Zeppelin Physical Graffiti 1975 13 12 14 lossless Vinyl Led Zeppelin Coda [vinyl] i 1987 12 11 14 lossless Vinyl Led Zeppelin In Throgh The Out Door [vinyl] i 1982 13 13 14 lossless Vinyl Led Zeppelin Presence [vinyl] i 1987 14 12 16 lossless Vinyl Led Zeppelin The Soundtrack From The Film The Song Remains The Same [vinyl] i 1982 13 12 14 lossless Vinyl Led Zeppelin Physical Graffiti [vinyl] i 1987 13 11 15 lossless Vinyl Led Zeppelin Houses Of The Holy [vinyl] i 1987 13 12 14 lossless Vinyl |
Next up, Rolling Stones. Rolling Stones vinyl Vintage vinyl The Rolling Stones Between the Buttons [vinyl] i 1967 12 10 15 lossless Unknown The Rolling Stones Some Girls (Australia CUN 39108) i 1978 13 12 15 lossless Vinyl Rolling Stones It's Only Rock 'n Roll 1974 14 11 15 lossless Vinyl Rolling Stones Out Of Our Heads 1976 12 10 13 lossless Vinyl Rolling Stones Aftermath i 1984 14 12 14 lossless Vinyl Rolling Stones Let It Bleed 1969 13 12 14 lossless Vinyl The Rolling Stones Tattoo You [vinyl] 1981 13 12 15 lossless Vinyl The Rolling Stones Miss You [12" vinyl] i. 1978 15 14 16 lossless Unknown The Rolling Stones Exile On Main St. [vinyl] i 1973 12 10 14 lossless Unknown Recent vinyl The Rolling Stones Wild Horses (Acoustic Version)/Dead Flowers [7" vinyl] i 2015 10 10 10 lossless Vinyl The Rolling Stones Sweet Summer Sun - Hyde Park Live [vinyl] i 2013 09 08 12 lossless Vinyl The Rolling Stones A Bigger Bang [Vinyl] i 2005 10 09 12 lossless Unknown The Rolling Stones Doom And Gloom [Vinyl] i 2012 10 10 10 lossless Unknown Here are some comparisons of CD vs Vinyl The Rolling Stones Bridges to Babylon [vinyl] 1997 12 11 14 lossless Unknown The Rolling Stones Bridges to Babylon (2009 Remaster) i 2009 06 05 07 lossless Unknown The Rolling Stones Bridges to Babylon i 1997 07 06 08 lossless Unknown The Rolling Stones A Bigger Band (Special Edition--CD only) i 2005 06 05 08 lossless Unknown The Rolling Stones A Bigger Bang [Vinyl] i 2005 10 09 12 lossless Unknown - cheers |
"Geoffkait do you listen to Led Zeppelin through your Sony Walkman or through a regular stereo ? I have a problem with Led Zep. If I do put it on the Spl’s usually end up going high and I get in trouble." Zeppelin CDs and cassettes as vintage as possible through Sony Walkman CD and Cassette players using vintage Sony Walkman Ultralight headphones. Is there such a thing as SPLs that are too high for Zeppelin? |
Mapman wrote, "The Adele that I am most familiar with is the tune "Skyfall" which was the theme song for the recent James Bond movie. I know and like it from a class at the gym (balance). I only have an mp3 download from Amazon so far and its not bad, fairly listenable overall I would say. Lossless digital version is surely better." The lossless digital version must surely be better? Surely you jest. Take a gander at Adele’s page on the dynamic range database link below. See if you can detect why someone recently posted regarding Adele’s poor showing when it comes to dynamic range. http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/list?artist=Adele&album= Cheerios |
Hello, Mapman. But we’re not talking about resolution, at least on this particular thread, only dynamic range. Myself, I don't see any correlation between dynamic range and resolution but I have heard opinions at variance with mine. As I just posted this morning even hi res downloads are not exempt from trigger happy audio engineers in terms of overly aggressive dynamic range compression. Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water... |
Well, obviously the dynamic range of any recording is affected by the playback system including all components and room acoustics. but we are not talking about all of that, we are only concerning ourselves here with the recording that is presented to the system, as it were. Even if the dynamic range measurement system is "crude" which I doubt it is it will be crude for all recordings so it should even out. What is the error in the DR measurement system, 1 dB? Who knows? It is what it is. If you can hear the compression it's bad. If you can't hear it or it doesn’t bother you too much then go for it! But as for me I find I cant listen to overly compressed music so if it flunks the test for dynamic range I’m out. |
I suspect the real life situation with respect to dynamic range of vinyl and CD is well presented in the Dynamic Range Database. If in fact it's true that CDs are overly compressed for playing in cars, which I'm actually not convinced is true, that might explain why vinyl tends to have higher dynamic range generally speaking than ITS CD COUNTERPART since LPs are not played in cars. But I agree with the author of the video that one needs to listen and make up ones mind whether it sounds good or not. |
Hello, it was actually the dude from Hydrogen Audio that intimated that the dynamic range is system dependent, which is a TRUE statement but irrelevant to the topic at hand. Now that I think about it and I hope your don't feel like I'm jumping down your throat too much so are the differences among cartridges. That's kind of the same argument the dude from Hydrogen was attempting to make. Cheerios |
"In regards to new vinyl , I live in a small town with only a small HMV nearby with limited selection. If I really want something I need to drive 45 mins or have it brought in. The last thing I want is to have any vinyl handled more by couriers." There are excellent deals to be had on eBay. If they're packed correctly the couriers can throw the around like a discus. The last ones I sold were the first two Mothers of Invention, In Through the Out Door, Tea for the Tilerman, and a bunch of Mercury Living Presence, and I'm not talking about reissues, either. It's a buyers market out there. |
Nobody said dynamic range is the end all do all for sound quality. But listen, if you buy a Ferrari that's supposed to redline at 8,000 RPM and you get it home and find out it comes with a rev limiter installed that cannot be removed that limits revs to 5,000 RPM, guess what? You should have bought a Toyota. |