Small room, "budget priced" speaker advice, please


Hi,

I recently sold my dearly beloved, old Vandersteen 2C's here on Audiogon (and I hope SgtPeppers is loving them at this moment!) :-) I did this because in our remodeled house, my new listening room (which will double as a guest room) is just too small for the 2C's. The Spousal Acceptance Factor was just too low. ;-)

I have a PS Audio Elite-Plus integrated amp for power (around 70 W/Ch) and a soon-to-be-shipped-off-for-a-refurb Sota Sapphire for an analog front end (I have "miles" of vinyl)! I will also get a CD player at some point.

For now, I need to find a pair of best-of-breed, truly "budget" speakers. By "budget," I'm talking upper limit of $850/pair. (Gone are my free-spending, single days... I'm a dad now...) :-)

Listening habits: lots of 60's and 70's folk and rock, some jazz, Donald Fagen/Steely Dan, a little classical. Listening volume: not too loud. Sonic preferences: I value transparency and imaging/soundstage. Bass should be accurate above all, as opposed to chest-pounding powerful.

I've looked at Paradigms, which I know are highly regarded at lower price points. Trouble is, our one, local dealer is primarily a TV/home theater outfit, so you're trying to hear them in a showroom crammed with other stuff... you know the drill. I've also hit a high end shop. Listened to a pair of PSB small towers and disliked them; they sounded muddy and veiled to me. Listened to a pair of the smallest Rega's and liked them quite a bit, but would want to go back to listen again. I even wrote to PS Audio for advice; they recommended the "baby" Epos monitors, but they're out of my price range.

Thanks if you've read this far. Knowing how subjective all this is, I'd still welcome any advice you have to offer about what I should try to audition.
rebbi
Well, I got to listen to Totems and Ushers today!

I heard both the Totem Dreamcatcher and Rainmaker, both at Austin Home Theater.

The Dreamcatcher, which is the smaller one, (tiny would be a better word) sounded wonderful. The sound is completely "out-of-the-box;" the soundstage is huge and there is no sense that you are listening to a couple of boxes. Even bass response is impressive for the size. The dealer put on a Diana Krall CD track featuring a very "upfront" acoustic bass and some finger snapping... that's all... sorry I can't remember the name of the track. In any case, the sense of presence and realism of the upright bass was astonishing, again, given the size of the speakers.

Even though the Rainmaker is currently just under $1000, i.e., about $150 over my budget, I asked to listen to them as long as I was in the showroom. If the Dreamcatchers are "wonderful," then I guess that makes the Rainmakers "magical." Again, that ENORMOUS soundstage, with beautiful, detailed highs and excellent imaging. They seem to have the same "DNA" as their baby brothers, but with more "air" and detail. I was very impressed.

Tonight, I also got to listen to the "baby" Ushers at a small dealer here in Austin called Tube Dreams (he also carries Totem, by the way). The associated equipment was all, as you would guess from the name of the dealership, very high-end tube stuff, including a Cary CD player with a tube output stage. I mention this because it's obviously hard to know how much of what I was hearing was attributable to the speakers and how much of what I was hearing was attributable to the associated equipment...

Be that as it may, listening to these tiny Ushers was an extremely interesting experience. Midrange and vocals were silky smooth and gorgeous (again, the speakers or the amplification?)... I spent a good deal of time listening to some James Taylor and definitely had a few of those "wow, he's actually in the room" experiences. I also spent a fair amount of time listening to a variety of cuts from Buena Vista Social Club, and again, the realism and coherence of the voices was fabulous. I joked, "Sounds like a couple of guys singing to me!" What was odd about the speakers, though, was the way they presented the soundstage. The experience was sort of like "looking through a window" BETWEEN the two speakers. In that space, there was a depth and an amazing sense of each instrument or singer having its own place. I can't think of a better word than "coherent." However, and this was the puzzling part, the soundstage did not seem to extend at all beyond or outside of the two speakers. What I heard was gorgeous, but it was all confined to that "in between" space, and I can't figure out what that was about.

All things being equal, at this point I'm leaning toward a Totem Rainmakers, if I can squeeze another $150 or so out of my budget.

By the way, since everybody is so incredibly enthusiastic about the Triangles, I haven't taken them off my list, just yet. But I still get the heebie-jeebies from the thought of buying loudspeakers I've never heard...
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I haven't heard Totems for quite a while but recall loving them for much the same reasons you state when I did.

Interesting about the Usher soundstage. I am not familiar enough with them to say why for sure. More "intimate" room acoustics by design maybe to match the tube orientation of the equipment?

Its very hard to precisely compare two different speakers set up in two different rooms with two different rigs. WHat did the dealer say about the SS with the ushers? I need to get to my dealer to give a listen to the UShers some day soon.

Were the setups at the dealer similar at all to the configuration you will have when you place the speakers in your room? Are the UShers and Totems ported? If so, front or back? THis might be worth taking into consideration based on how they will be placed in your room.
Mapman,

I mentioned to the dealer (very nice guy, by the way) that I was hearing all this depth and imaging between but not beyond the speakers. We tried moving them closer together, toeing them in a tiny bit, and moving the listening position back a foot or two, but it didn't change the soundstage much at all that I could tell. There was definitely magic there, but it was nearly all happening between the speakers, meaning that they never quite did that small monitor vanishing act. I don't know why. I have to say that I agree with what Reina said in Stereophile. There's a real sense of layers of depth there, but I didn't get that "engulfed in sound" experience that the Totems put out.

The Totems are rear ported, the Ushers front ported. He had them way out from the rear wall, mainly because there were a bunch of speakers (not hooked up) behind them. It's a home business and the listening room is not that large.
I'm suspecting multiple factors might contribute to what you heard with the Ushers, speaker design, room acoustics maybe combined with tube amplification could result in the sound stage characteristics you describe.

Having small front ported speakers too far out from the rear wall would probably limit the bass response, but not so much the sound stage, I would expect.

OF course, we all know that no two speaker lines sound the same and taste is a major factor. Some will like a deep but more concentrated sound stage better, some will go more for the "disappears into the room act".

So far the totems sound like a better match to you tastes, from what I've heard on this thread. THe Triangles you've never heard are surely more like the Totems than the Ushers from your description.

Maybe someone more knowledgeable about Ushers and tube amplification could offer a more concrete explanation?