2. speakers
  3. 1174276202

Want something more forgiving than Vandy 3a sigs

I think Mike Fremer's comment about the Vandersteen Quatros, in his Stereophile review, applies to the Vandersteen 3a sigs: "...treble performance may strike some as being too honest...". I'm one of those "some." We all know that a lot of source material out there suffers from some degree of treble emphasis. I listen to a wide range of classical and jazz recordings, and, even after a fair degree of experimentation with cables, pre-amps, and amps, I've been unable to come up with a combination that is sufficiently "forgiving" to allow me to listen, easily and comfortably, to as much of the source material that I want to hear on my Vandys. In particular, I'm often disappointed with orchestral string sound...and indeed, have figured out, with this experience, that massed strings are quite difficult to record well. My system starts with a Linn CD12. I've tried PSE, GNSC-modified ARC LS-15, Cary SLP2002, and am working with a Cary SLP98 now on the pre-amp side; and have tried a VTL ST150, a BEL1001, and an ARC VT100 MKIII on the amp side. I've used various Audioquest, Kimber, BEL, and Purist Audio cable, and am happiest with Cardas Cross and Golden Cross (to which I was led by things I read on this Forum). All of that is good gear, some of it more top-focused than others. None of it has been able to give me as consistently as warm and "lush" a listening experience as I think I ought to be able to find, and this is especially true with orchestral music. Probably not surprisingly, the Cary 2002 combined with the ARC VT-100 has leaned closest to the right direction. (Let me hasten to add, though, that a really well-recorded chamber music or jazz CD will often sound terrific with most of this equipment and the Vandys.) (I should also add that I came to the 3a sigs from the 2ce sigs, which I also felt were capable of being a bit unforgiving, frankly.)

Within Texas, where I live (and where I would prefer to buy), I've figured out that some options include Sonus Faber Cremonas, Audio Physic Scorpios, Wilson Benesh Circles (I think) and not much else (of which I am aware)that will fit into the room without creating domestic discomfort. (My wife thinks the Vandy's are too big as it is.)

Any ideas out there about the speakers mentioned, other speakers, or possibly electronics?
eweedhome
davemitchell
253 posts
 
I agree that there isn't a lot of hope when you find a Vandersteen 3A Sig too aggressive. But here are some thoughts:

-You may be listening to some recordings that are never going to sound the way you want them to on any system, so trying to make your system "fix" those is not a good idea. Bad recordings can't be fixed, and skewing your system in an attempt to make them more palatable will ruin all other good recordings.

-Try tilting the Vandersteens further back than recommended in the manual. This will make them even more forgiving.

-Install some (four or more) Echobusters or similar large panels 2'x4' fiberglass insulation panels in your room to change the tonal balance and stop strong reflections from sidewalls. Be sure to cover any hard surfaces behind or between the speakers anywhere near your eye/ear level.

-Add a 2Wq subwoofer (or pair) with the correct value high pass filter. This will make the system sound more effortless, more open and relaxed.

I’m a dealer for Vandersteen, Linn, Audio Research, ProAc and Audioquest.
eweedhome OP
227 posts
 
I'll look into the single driver speaker concept, and thank you for the suggestion...that's a new idea for me.

I have tilted the speakers back so that I am not in direct axis with the tweeters.

My equipment is on 2 separate circuits, the amp on one, and everything else on another, which is a dedicated circuit separate from the rest of the household current. The amp circuit has only a few lightbulbs to power, other than the amp. I have no current conditioner/treatment in place. I have isolation stands, and all of the way between me and the speakers is an area rug.

I wish I could experiment with acoustic treatment of the room, but I've got domestic issues (as many of us do). That's part of why I concluded I just needed to look for another speaker. But, to be honest, I've heard the 5's, for example, a number of times at the dealers, and I just plain don't like them, or the Quatros (also heard at the dealers). Fremer put it very well re the Quatros...they suffer from "Too Much Information" distortion--and that's how I perceive the 5's and, to a somewhat lesser extent, the 3a's. But let me emphasize again: with a certain kind of recording, I am in complete agreement that the Vandersteens sound superb. However, too much of what I listen to does not fit into that mold...depending, in part, on what's driving the speakers. And, along those lines, I think the most interesting advice (other than to try new speakers, which I will do) is to look further into the Cary direction. As mentioned, the Cary pre-amp has been the best addition to the system that I've made, in terms of warming up the sound and easing the highs a bit. I don't want to lose ALL of the detail, but I want soft, easy-going highs. Maybe Cary amplification would do what I want.

Re the equalizer, I confess that I was "brought up" (if you will) in the school of thought that you put as little between the signal and the ear as possible, so I haven't really considered that direction...but if I can't resolve the issue in other ways, that is one potential solution. It would just have to be a darn fine equalizer, I guess.

You've all been very kind to write, and I appreciate it. Now I've definitely got some new ideas. If somebody has others, I'm glad to hear.
jmfmusic
5 posts
 
I would suggest you try out BAT gear, say one of their pre-amps. I am fairly sensitive to overly bright sound as well and when I was auditioning, it was always the system with a BAT pre-amp that made music to me. Nothing else I tried (ARC, NAIM, Classe, Blue Circle) clicked the way BAT did. I ended up with Vandys, a BAT pre-amp and an Ayre amp.
rjoe
4 posts
 
Some of my music are not the greatest recordings in the world - pop music from the 80's, Salsa music from the 70's. Therefore I find most high-end speakers just too bright and analytical.

I am suprised you find the 3A sigs too bright. They seem just right for me. But that's me, we all have different ears.

I have Spendor SP2/3. You may want to consider the Classic Spendor series SP100, SP2/3, or SP31/P. You probably don't want the Spendor SP1/2 (two tweeters) or the S series since they are less forgiving (but not bright to my ears). Note the Classic series is getting replaced the "P" becomes "R". Don't know when they will be available in he US though.

I used to have Sonus Faber Concerto. Loved them. They are more lush and forgiving than the Spendor.

Others to consder: Gershman, Vienna Acoustics, Harbeth, Living Voice, Audio Note.

I find bringing wood into the room adds some natural warmth. Maybe something to try?
mrtennis
3,295 posts
 
consider a speaker with the manger driver and also consider the aerial 10 t.

you might also consider toeing the vandersteens out and using room treatment on the side wall as well as covering up the window with an absorbing material, if possible.
More to discover