Do I want a sub with VR-4jr's?

The speakers are close tothe side walls and the room is medium small. Whehn I say " I am missing the very bottom of the audible range" I mean very low. The dpeakers are great, but their is roll off down low. They just lack the tight punch that a good sub could bring......I think. Just a small sharpening of the leading edge of a bass drum. The overall sense of weight or feel of an orchestra.....
I will post once I have a sub. I think that it should work well. I am sort of leaning toward the velodyne dd15. I like the idea of seeing the freq response, then listening, and tweaking that way.
Thanks
for all your help
S

It is so difficult to give opinions to somebody, whose listening preferences and the soundprint of his/her system in an unkonwn room is likely different than mine. I have tried recently to complement with a sub my Wilson Benesch Act One speaker, which is rolling off at 35hz. I am listening mostly classical music at moderate level. As for classical music concerned, I felt that practically there is no need to complement my speakers with a sub. Most of the music is such that it does not trigger the sub, and once the sub is triggered, it was difficult to decide whether it was helpful or it was too much oomph. None the less, when I played electronic music (Suzanne Vega-Led Zeppelin-etc), the sub was continouosly working giving a floor shattering bass. So, If I would play mostly electronic music and I would go for floorshattering bass (and I would live not in an block of apartments but in a house) I likely go for a sub. But given my listening preferences, and my conditions as far as living concerned, I personally felt, that there is no need for sub in my system.

Superfly676,

Semantics may cause me to misinterpret what you hope to gain with a sub. I may think of "punch" in a different way....I think of a tight bass as "punchy"...it kind of hits you hard. So please disregard this if I have misinterpreted your meaning....

There is not much "punch" in the frequencies below about 100 Hz...I fear you may be disappointed in your sub addition. Punch can come from a number of factors....a big amplifier with exceptional damping factor, a critically damped base driver, a speaker cabinet with no resonances or tuned ports (these are hard to drive), and the phase alignment between drivers: tweeter, mid and base. Very light and stiff driver materials can increase the punchy sound but this needs to be very carefully balanced with ringing resonance distortion (like a bell, a stiff cone can vibrate at certain frequencies which can make the bass sound boomy, especially a challenge with metal drivers). All these factors affect how much "punch" you get in the base.

I have not heard a woofer really deliver "punch". Such low frequencies simply do not lend themselves to producing that effect. Sub woofers produce sounds from vibrations (inaudible but you feel them) to a powerful deep "thud" (like a tyrannosaur is supposed to make as it walks beside your house).

Of course, you could eliminate the band limiting filter on your sub woofer, which would allow it to deliver "punch", however, the sub sound will become directional and disassociate from your other speaker drivers, producing a confusing soundstage to the ears.

I agree with Shadorne. I guess we'll have to wait until you report back, but the VS's inside of a room with boundaries actually almost covers almost everything audible. It shakes the floor without a sub. The sub offering a few of the bottom Hz will almost be unnoticeable, and bass energy it could brings if turned to higher levels than natural will muddy up the rest of the sound (artificially added bass).

Rob

Yeah, you want a sub. You've gotta have that foundation if you want to be a true playa. Rel is the most musical, but velodyne DD is close and the built in EQ, TV graph hookup, mic, remote control, etc makes it the clear winner in this arena. On my DD15, I have different EQ and sub volumes set for dramas, action movies, jazz/classical, rock, and EQ defeat all available off of the remote. You can't do that with a rel, unfortunately.