What's wrong with Thiel?

I own a pair of 2.3s. For a few years, I've paired them with a 60 watt VAC Avatar tube amp. Nordost SPM ties everythng together. Absolutely loved it. Even in triode (30 watts). This in mid-sized typically damped room.
By the way, VAC and Kevin Hayes is another class act.

Then, in part due to listening to all the posts about the Thiels needing mucho power, I succumbed to the upgrade bug and the heady excitement of the Audiogon auction. (I agree that the Avatar didn't provide the punch on the low end this aging rocker missed.) So - now I'm using a CJ Premier 16 and Pass X250. Now have a little more and tighter bottom end (the sound, not me!) and a more truthful mids/highs, but you know, I sometimes miss how my Avatar would lie to me. There are some things I just don't want to hear!

So - I guess I'm saying that the Thiel 2.3s need SOME power - probably no SETs should apply - but the quality of that power is more important.

I auditioned a pair of CS 1.6's at a local high-end store recently.

They seemed to be good speakers, but I'm not sure they're worth over $2000. The bass extension was fine - they seemed to go a little deeper than the specs indicate. However, there was a room-related resonance (according to the dealer) which gave some of the bass notes a boomy quality. Farther up, they were pretty neutral (I used the Editor's Choice CD). Overall, the sound was good, but not as good as I might expect for the price. They had a little "bubble" around instruments at times, perhaps a result of associated equipment, which sounded unrealistic to me.

I own and like a pair of Monitor Audio Bronze 2's, which go down about as far as the Thiels and are almost as neutral. They retail for $400/pair. They aren't perfect, but I think the value/money ratio is quite good.

The 1.6's are reputed to be much easier to drive than earlier Thiel models.

Wouldn't you expect a dealer trying to sell an expensive speaker to have treated the room? Otherwise they have to "explain" the room problem to customers.

Also, when listening to a system at a dealer, it is hard to know what you're hearing, if you don't happen to have the same equipment at home. They used an MF upsampling CD player with tubes, and Classe amplification - both of which are quite different from my equipment.

Finally, I think one should be able to expect more quality control in the high end - one reads too many examples of expensive products which are essentially "broken" or not working. Sending products like this to a magazine for a review is really dumb and, if it reflects the general qc of the company, a reason not to buy from them.

The part of the equation that settles in the amp as well is the interconnects and speaker wire, if you have neutral wire it keeps the amp sounding much more like it should and doesn't bring the coloration into the system that makes amps not work. I have seen many people try five or six amps that none of worked due to what seemed like the unforgiving nature of the speakers, put neutral cable in and all of the amps would work but you can pick the one you like the character of without having a downside.

I was working with a guy who had the big Thiels and he was having such a difficult time finding wire that he thought he had an amp problem. Neutral wire makes a huge array of amplifiers work in a way that they don't when mid grade wires are in the system. The best JPS costs less than mid-grade Transparent, Audioquest, MIT, Nordost, etc.

I just was looking at what BigTee was saying and most of it is good, but the part where he says he has not had Thiels is the part to pay attention to, he cannot recommend wire that works for his Vandys for Thiels, that is exactly what will get you into trouble, Vandersteens are not ruthless. The best thing to do is ask Thiel owners what they have settled into as wires that seem to allow a wide latitude of electronics to be used. When you find that formula you'll know you are on the right track.

What sets the Thiels apart is their high resolution like Watts Puppys that will reveal wire coloration as flaws. You actually need wire like would be used with the WP7's but most are working with a different budget than those who pay $25k for their speakers. Get the good neutral wire and you'll be able to use any good electronics.

Put up a thread asking Thiel owners what wire is working and you'll see a pattern form.

I dont really consider the fact that the Thiels require powerful amplification a flaw, more like a characteristic of the speakers. Getting the cables right is a major part of really enjoying the Thiels. They will show the true character of cables like no other speakers I have heard. I have tried many any have settled on the Audioquest DBS cables from start to finish. Right now I have Panthers from table to phono and from phono to preamp. I've got Cheetahs from CDP to preamp and preamp to amp. I'm using Mont Blanc speaker cables.