music , mind , thought and emotion

Ozfly, touche'.

Ozfly: thank you for your beautiful response. Yes, that, in words, is as close as we can get. But, we did get there didn't we (Unsound, do you think that was an "accident"; that my purpose was to satiate my inquiry? It was never about "touches"...). Interestingly, Ozfly, we got there, in the essence of your response, its meaning, only when you responded that we were being circular. I wonder how that happened? Hmm. (Although detlof said something beautiful back there somewhere...)

Unsound, the reason we keep talking around each other - even though, beneath that and tying us together is the journey we agree on - is because we define consciousness and its capacities differently. You say, you can not think about a place absent thinking - which is true - but then go on to assume that because your thinking can't see itself that you can't know anything about its absense. The underlying assumption of this is that only thinking derives truth about non-thinking spaces of the mind. This, essentially, reduces all trans-thinking perceptions into a category of unknowable (hence, my original question asking you if you were sure it was unknowable).

You ask, how can we derive truth about non-thinking spaces, and my answer is, by watching them. The thinking mind says this is not possible because it tells you that there is nothing left to see or to be the seer, but, again, this is a bias of the thinking mind (cognition is objectifying; any space absent objects is categorized as a nothingness, then, as non-existent).

In fact, you can watch your own thoughts, and even discern eventually their arisement in the mind. Yes, you can not "see" this silent watcher with thoughts, but it does exist. Of course, like any searcher for the truth, one must engage the injunctive to prove or disprove its existence. With thought discernment, we can share that knowledge with each other through thought-based language, but the knowledge that is derived by the silent witness to your own thought processing can only be done, that experiment upon your own mind, by yourself. The "what is" has it rigged that way. You experience the truth of the silent space by be-ing it...The beauty of compassion that I talked of is found there.

Which is why I always come back to trans-cognitive levels of perceiving music as a valid perception; because it allows a discussion of these levels in general; music is my foil.

Interestingly, the thinking mind of many can experience the "letting go" of cognitive impulse and the consequent experience of trans-cogitive perception listening to music, but then, when we come to dicussing it, that same thinking mind denies a place beyond itself where truth (especially of itself) can be discerned.

This is, of course, a logical incongruency.

Asa, my "touche' was meant two fold, first as reflection upon previous posts that Ozfly and I submitted and to congratulate Ozfly on the points of his last post, nothing more. I think you believe that I think that some subjects are unknowable, when in fact all I'm saying is that "I" don't know. I hope that all is knowable. I have availed myself to my feelings of my feelings but have not afforded myself the opportunity to analyze them into true thought. At present I'm not up to the challange because it seems daunting for the very reasons you mention. With all due sincere respect, I really have much more pressing matters right now. Perhaps the future will afford me the opportunity to pursue these interesting considerations. Good listening.

Unsound, I owe you this, for slamming at you one time. I'd told you before that, you sir, arrived at the door. I was not joking, nor picking on you at the time. Didn't I?

Do you really think that, "you" can run from "yourself"? ;-)

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It's snow and cold outside...
Come in... Come in...
Yes, you and you and you... All of you.
Leave the snow, the cold and wet, outside...

It's warm and dry in here...
There're some chairs, please seatdown...
Here, have a hot cup of tea... Slowly! It's hot.
Nice... warm... and calm... in here, huh?...

My friends, when you done with your teas, and leave here; don't bring the cold from outside; don't take the tea, the warm and dry from in here with you. Out that door you go, walk the Heaven on earth...

See you next time, Unsound. Thank you for taking the time to listen and respond.