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Problems getting the best out of my Berning

Hello fellow Agoners,

I beckon for help from experienced users of the Berning ZH270! I just received mine new a week ago, and although it is an incredible amp, it is not meeting my expectations. HELP!

First the good news:

This is the fastest amp I have ever head, and it has virtually no noise floor. I am truly impressed with these aspects. It handles most everything with ease and clarity.

Now my system:

Proac 2.5 loudspeakers
Cary CD308 and Arcam FMJ CD23
Kimber PBJ Interconnnects
Audioquest Type 4 cables

(I've also used Dynaudio Audience 72's and all MIT cables, and Triangle Titus + Audioquest Slate cables and PBJ IC's).

OK - now to the problem:

On all three setups mentioned above, the amp seems strongly biased towards the midrange and upper midrange, resulting in a fatiguing presention. There is a significant decrease in bass (not detail, but the actual movement of air) from the other amps I have used for comparison (Classe CAP 101, Pass Aleph 3, Adcom GFA 5400). While the detail and fastness are truly amazing, the midrange emphasis is getting the worst of me!

I've spoken with David Berning and Frank S (FS Audio.com) and both encourage some tweaking to get rid of this perceived (psycho?) acoustic bias. Frank is going to send me some interconnects to try. David mentioned that others have changed the tubes. He doubts anything is wrong with the amp.

Is this all in my head, or have others had similar problems and needed to make adjustments to get it right? While all my other amps are currently SS, I have trouble believing that this is the "tube sound" (I've heard other tube amps). Other threads mention system tweaking to get rid of a "glare" with the ZH270, changing tubes, sensitivity to cabling. My perception of the sound is pretty strong - currently I like my Aleph 3 a whole lot more with the existing setup.

I'm willing to put some time and money into making this work - because in all other respects, this is an absolutely amazing amp. Perhaps it doesn't suit my ear - but I want the advantages of this amp without the disadvantages I just mentioned. Please - suggestions on what to do from all you experienced Berning fans... so many high commendations cannot be that far off (right?).
peter_s
rhirsch's avatar
rhirsch
36 posts
 
Joneill... If you are using the standard balls that came with the Rollerblocks then these are very much magnetic (a no-no with the Berning). The stainless steel balls are a $225 upgrade. Also due to the roughness underneath the Berning you'll need to use the extra plates that are stashed in the Symposium box lid as a smooth interface. I second Allan's recommendation of the Still Points. They surpassed the Rollerblocks (I have a Berning, Cary and ProAc 2.5 also) especially in the critical upper midrange thru low treble. The Still Points excelled with difficult piano passages, with the Rollerblocks they could get a little glassy and bright. From sibilance to cymbals, this area was smooth as silk (sibilance in hot recordings had NO irritating digital edge... it was reduced to a non-issue). Cymbals were appropriately metallic when called for and trailed off beautifully into a most sublimely black background. Bass tightened up but never lean. The Rollerblocks tended to over emphasize mid-bass a touch and was hard to place instrumentally speaking. The Still Points presented a much more stable soundscape. Layering was more precise and natural at the same time. They (Still Points) call very little attention to themselves in comparison to the Symposium's tendency to sound a little too hifi at times.
joneill
112 posts
 
Thanks for the info. Still points? Where and how much?

Jim
davidz
44 posts
 
I have to second R Hirsch's comments about the Stillpoints under the Berning. I put them under my Siegfried and the improvements were big time. I won't repeat all of the praise, but they are a very cost-effective upgrade. They are also user friendly: the component doesn't slide, nor does it have to be completely level.
asa
662 posts
 
I've heard the Berning break in on a Acoustat 1+1 - a difficult load - and compared with the Pass Aleph 3 at the same time. On bass its not the Berning, and very doubtful that its a reliability issue.

Although I agree that cabling is not something to jump into until a few other things are tried, my strong gut feeling is that you are finally hearing that Type 4/PBJ. That coupled with the breakin - the Berning I listened to was thin but clear, no glare at the beginning - could very well cause your problem. Spatial and harmonics can be greatly improved by NOS inputs - and you've gotten some fantastic advice here and I wouldn't hesitate eventually going that way - its still, at this point, not going to solve the bass issue you describe.

Since you can always sell the Berning at not too much of a loss, investing in bringing up the rest of your system should not be ignored. Biwire is tough at $500. Ask around. You can send unit back to Berning if that would make you feel better, but I think you are just going to hear that its ok and then be really discouraged.

The Berning is a very high end amp and when you move into this kind of piece, the rest gets exposed. Please keep us posted.
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