2. amps-preamps
  3. 1033017309

Problems getting the best out of my Berning

Hello fellow Agoners,

I beckon for help from experienced users of the Berning ZH270! I just received mine new a week ago, and although it is an incredible amp, it is not meeting my expectations. HELP!

First the good news:

This is the fastest amp I have ever head, and it has virtually no noise floor. I am truly impressed with these aspects. It handles most everything with ease and clarity.

Now my system:

Proac 2.5 loudspeakers
Cary CD308 and Arcam FMJ CD23
Kimber PBJ Interconnnects
Audioquest Type 4 cables

(I've also used Dynaudio Audience 72's and all MIT cables, and Triangle Titus + Audioquest Slate cables and PBJ IC's).

OK - now to the problem:

On all three setups mentioned above, the amp seems strongly biased towards the midrange and upper midrange, resulting in a fatiguing presention. There is a significant decrease in bass (not detail, but the actual movement of air) from the other amps I have used for comparison (Classe CAP 101, Pass Aleph 3, Adcom GFA 5400). While the detail and fastness are truly amazing, the midrange emphasis is getting the worst of me!

I've spoken with David Berning and Frank S (FS Audio.com) and both encourage some tweaking to get rid of this perceived (psycho?) acoustic bias. Frank is going to send me some interconnects to try. David mentioned that others have changed the tubes. He doubts anything is wrong with the amp.

Is this all in my head, or have others had similar problems and needed to make adjustments to get it right? While all my other amps are currently SS, I have trouble believing that this is the "tube sound" (I've heard other tube amps). Other threads mention system tweaking to get rid of a "glare" with the ZH270, changing tubes, sensitivity to cabling. My perception of the sound is pretty strong - currently I like my Aleph 3 a whole lot more with the existing setup.

I'm willing to put some time and money into making this work - because in all other respects, this is an absolutely amazing amp. Perhaps it doesn't suit my ear - but I want the advantages of this amp without the disadvantages I just mentioned. Please - suggestions on what to do from all you experienced Berning fans... so many high commendations cannot be that far off (right?).
peter_s
ultrakaz
187 posts
 
I agree that the amp should be sent back to Berning and also agree that cables, cd players and tubes should not be changed yet. Acceptable performance should be achieved out of the box.

However, being more than familiar with both the Z270 and the Proacs, I think that it might be a component mismatch.

Proacs are warm, smooth and laid back and use average drivers and cheap crossover components (yes, I know they cost $4500). They are not the last word in speed and transparency. The Berning, OTOH, is all about speed and transparency. This would leave me to believe that the Berning is not complementing the Proac's strengths, but revealing its weaknesses.

If the Berning does not work out try a Conrad Johnson Premier 11A (great relatively inexpensive amp and I regret selling mine) or Audio Research Vt100 (more power but has a fan in it). Stuart Tyler of Proac voices his speakers using Audio Research amps. Lastly, if you want the ease of solid state try the 47 Labs Gaincard; I was shocked by the musicality of this combination.
peter_s OP
1,318 posts
 
I am very happy with the Proac-Aleph 3 combo, but I would not say that the Proacs are very warm or laid back, atleast with my current cabling and the Aleph amp. Instead I feel that they are very forward and accurate. I've mentioned that before on Agon, and it was suggested that the perception of Proacs being warm and laid back may be due to the fact that most people use tubes with them. Anyhow, the perception of exaggerated midrange occurs with all the speakers I'm using - triangle titus, dynaudio audience 72 (both soon to be replaced). I really do like the Proacs, though I also look forward to listening to others at the CES in January (including the Ref 3).

Rhirsch and Ian - what can you say about the synergy between the Proacs and the Berning? The overall sound? Rhirsch - what type of cabling do you recommend?
peter_s OP
1,318 posts
 
By the way - the current strategy is to perform atleast 4 days of continuous burn in, have the tubes checked, and then assess the situation again. If it doesn't improve, I'll send the amp to David for a check up.
rhirsch's avatar
rhirsch
36 posts
 
Im using the same speaker cable as Ian - TG Audio's and Silversmith Audio for the ic's. Bass really goes thru the floor with the TG thrown into the mix.
peter_s OP
1,318 posts
 
Yikes! I don't think I can afford the TG Audio Lab cables. Got any other suggestions for someting neutral that would be an asset? For speaker cables I currently have Audioquest Type 4, slates, and MIT Terminator 2's available. Of course, I'll do tube checks and break-in first, and maybe even tubes.
More to discover