You don't lack bass, you have too much treble


One of the biggest surprises in audio and acoustics is how damping a room with treatments makes small speakers sound so much bigger.  Yes, you get a broader, deeper soundstage but you also seem to get a lot more bass, more power, more extension!!

What's going on? 

What happened is your room was too bright.  The overall balance was too heavy on the mid and treble so as a result your systems balance was off.

For this reason I often suggest before A'goners start chasing bigger and bigger speakers, that  they think about the room first, add damping and diffusion and then go back to thinking about the bass.

Not saying you don't need a bigger speaker, but that some rooms may never have a big enough speaker in them due to the natural reflective properties.

erik_squires

Showing 3 responses by mijostyn

@minorl And, what level of smoothing are you using? How many speaker systems actually produce sonically accurate bass down to 18 Hz at the listening position? I'll give you a hint. It has a diameter of three mm. There is no such thing as a system that could not benefit from subwoofers if you want a realistic presentation at volumes that will not damage your hearing.

I am a fanatic when it comes to measuring systems. I have been doing it since 1995. However, it helps a bunch if there is something you can do with the measurements, like use them to guide your use of equalization and adjustment of group delays, set up of subwoofers, etc. All this can be done digitally at very high resolution. These tools are so powerful I can make a middling system sound like one 10 times as expensive. There is no other way to integrate subwoofers correctly. Every other method is wishful thinking. Can you take the edge off a bad room? No, not completely as the reflections disturb the imaging. You have to manage the room with the appropriate methods or use speakers with tightly controlled dispersion.  Measure away and get yourself a full function digital preamp.

@erik_squires Give me a break. Treating a room makes speakers sound smaller not bigger. Subwoofers can make a system sound bigger if a two way crossover is used, much bigger. 

@minorl The problem for most audiophiles is they have no idea what they are listening to. They have no reference. The best thing you can do is invest in a usb microphone and an acoustic measurement program. Then when you get a equalizer you will know exactly what to do. If you get a room control system it will do it for you and probably do it better, certainly much faster. Digital processors can also determine launch times and correct delays. '

I do not care for a flat amplitude curve and most people don't either, but the right curve is not far off flat. We have been dealing with target curves for 30 years now and we know what suits most people in residential situations and that is a boost below 100 hz and a slow cut above 1000 Hz so the 20 kHz is down between 6 and 12 dB. This is a good starting point for most systems. The problem is that if you do not have subwoofers the low end boost can really increase distortion in most woofers at volume. Full range drivers are at severe risk. 

@erik_squires When you limit reflective sound in any room the sound obviously becomes more localized to the speaker. The speaker gets sonically smaller. If you treat a room by hardening the walls and removing the carpet, then yes, you can make a speaker sound larger. That would be an odd approach that few of us would take. My suggestion to you is to put the carpet back down. 

@erik_squires  And just what do you think you are going to do about bass in any normally sized residential space? Most audiophiles know that bass below 100 Hz is poorly localized. The dimensions of the room are of primary importance followed by the number and positioning of bass/subwoofer drivers.  After that it is all about crossover programming and digital signal processing backed up by a lot of power. Bass has nothing to do with size.  Low bass is more about feeling, you either feel it or you don't. Most people don't. The initial impact of a bass drum occurs at higher frequencies. The vibration of the bass drum heads after that impact occurs at very low frequencies as long as the drum does not have it's damper on.  On Brittany Howard's Jaime the first cut History Repeats has a beautifully recorded bass drum with it's damper off. You can feel the pressure waves after the initial strike tapering over about 10 cycles. I can see it in my windows in the right light. It is not something you hear. There is absolutely nothing you can do in a room to make this happen other than blow out a wall. The problem for most audiophiles is that most systems do not project the power needed to reproduce this kind of bass. What a speaker measures at one meter means absolutely nothing. Most audiophiles do not even know what they are missing because they have never heard a system reproduce low bass like this.   In a 16 X 30 foot room It takes at least two 15" subwoofers each powered by at least 2000 watts. For really low distortion four 15" subwoofers.  The same applies for Imaging. Most have never heard a system image at the state of the art because very few systems can do it. 

If you want BIG sound under all circumstances get line source speakers such a big Maggies or 8 foot Sound Labs. Line sources composed of multiple drivers like the old Nearfield Pipedreams do not work well. It has been tried many times without much success. Point source speakers always produce a small image as if you are seated far away, even the big ones. What you see affects what you hear. When listening for imaging characteristics you always close your eyes. 

Happy Saint Patrick's Day to all you Irish folks