"10-25-15: Maplegrovemusic
What makes an expensive cable expensive ? Is it the fancy jacket ? The Ultra rare conductor materials used (LOL) ? The fancy box they come in ? Biggest sham on us audiophile fools ! If we only knew the mark up v.s. actual costs , no one in their right mind would ever buy one ."
That can be true, but its not always the case. Not all cables are easy to make. For example, Nordost's flat ribbon cables, Tara RSC, the internal conductor layout in Cardas cables. I could give more examples, but these 3 are enough. Some of these designs are so unique, the cables need to be made by hand, and the machines used to make the cables need to be custom built. To make their flat cables, Nordost had to build the machine themselves. If you look closely at some of their cables, the level of precision and detail are amazing. When you see that, you realize how difficult some of these cables are to make. |
"10-26-15: Nicotico
Thank you Zd. You have just proven that there is a higher correlation between cost and degree of difficulty to manufacture, than there is between cost and sound quality. "
I don't know if I've proven anything, but I would have to agree. Personally, I love it when a cheap cable sounds better than an expensive one. But that doesn't mean that the more expensive one isn't any good, it just may not be the right match. |
"10-26-15: Maplegrovemusic
zd . thanks for pointing out the manufacturing costs for one cable out of a thousand !"
I gave more than 1. If you do a search for Cardas pics, you'll find some pictures of cables that were stripped down, layer by layer, so you can see how intricate the assembly actually is. The artists drawings in the sales lit doesn't do it justice.
I also mentioned Tara. As far as I know, you can't go out and buy rectangular solid core conductors. That has to be made in house using custom built machines.
I also remember stating that many cables don't have this type of construction cost and are probably over priced. I can name plenty of those as well. I also don't think its a coincidence that Tara, Nordost and Cardas are 3 of the biggest brands of cables in the world. They must be doing something right. |
Since when did Tara Labs start including capes with their cables? All I got were those velvet sacks the cables come in. Audiolabryinth I want my cape! |
"10-29-15: Ebm
Some people have money to buy the best."
And everyone hates us for it, don't they? I say, there's plenty of money out there and if you don't have any its your own fault. Stop crying like a bunch of babies. |
"Like i have stated before the price of copper is $5 a pound . So , it is not the price of the copper . What's left ? Only referring to copper cables as they are the most popular ."
The quality of the copper, and how difficult the design is to build. Have a look at this picture.
https://www.google.com/search?q=cardas+cable&safe=off&biw=1600&bih=770&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&sqi=2&ved=0CAgQ_AUoA2oVChMIlbyxtZ3pyAIVhCQmCh0Wog-y#imgrc=R76Ojp5kqP3-qM%3A |
"Like i have stated before the price of copper is $5 a pound . So , it is not the price of the copper . What's left ? Only referring to copper cables as they are the most popular ."
Sorry. I thought you were speaking English. I should have known that a direct answer to a direct question wouldn't go over all that well. So what type of answer were you looking for, if not a direct one? If you can't come up with anything, we'll understand. |
"A super car will appreciate in value."
Not after I'm done with it. |
"10-30-15: Onhwy61
There are volumes of research on why people buy luxury goods. High end audio is a luxury item and within high end audio expensive cables are even more of a luxury. The literature is pretty clear on a consensus view. Buying a luxury item makes someone feel good about themselves. "
Just because research is done and papers are written, doesn’t mean you have the answers. Most papers are published because the people writing them are pushed to do so. That aside, psychology is an extremely difficult science to use effectively. I have a degree in it, but I chose a different career path just for this reason. We know so little about how the mind really works. Science hasn’t even scratched the surface. To assume that high end audio, and cables especially, are just luxuries is just plain wrong. That may be the case for some people, but I suspect the numbers are extremely low. I could easily argue that cables are a tool to most audiophiles. Take Audiogon, for example. I could quote thousands of posters on the topic of cables, and show that the cables intended use, is a tool to either fix a sonic issue within a system, or a general tool used with the intention of increasing sound quality overall. I think you would be hard pressed to come up with a small handful of quotes where the poster is referring to his cables as a status symbol type purchase. I just don't see the evidence for it. |
"He figures it cost 20 percent of retail to build a speaker. So for an example. If the Alexia retails for 52k than their cost should be around 10k. I would say that is a very big markup from manufacturing to retail."
He's just figuring. Only Wilson knows what it costs them to make a pair of speakers, and they're not going to tell anyone, including they're dealers. Product cost is the single most guarded secret in any business. If someone in a company that has access to that info tells you what they pay for something, they're lying. It could also be a scam like the auto industry and invoice pricing. |
"10-31-15: Rja
Are you trying to tell us MSRP isn't real?
Now I've heard everything."
If that was for me, I'm not sure what you are asking. I didn't mention MSRP. |
"11-01-15: Rja
Zd542,
A little sensitive are we? On a thread like this?"
What are you talking about? You asked a question and didn't say who it was for. If you weren't talking to me, just say so ad we'll move on. I don't see what the big deal is. |
"True That . So the designer of amps and speakers should have the knowledge of what is needed to make there designs perform optimally . Why not tell the consumer ? "
They can't be too specific because its impossible listen to everything in all possible combinations. Also factor in personal taste.
Most manufacturers do give some general info on how to get the best from the speakers, in the owners manual and/or online. Another option is to call them directly. If you tell them about your system and taste, you usually get much more info out of them. |
"I actually don't think that's true. I am pretty sure most speaker manufacturers state the MINIMUM power required. They also frequently state the MAXIMUM POWER Handling capability. It's also why speaker manufactures usually state sensitivity, you know, to indicate relative power required.
Geoffkait (Threads | Answers | This Thread)"
I have to agree. Although I can understand Mapman's comments. I just think its the other way around. If you look at how amp company's rate their products, its almost criminal. Not all of them, but the closer you get to mass market, the more bogus the ratings. I think that leaves speaker manufacturers in a bad place because there's no standard. The average person would think a 200 watt Bryston amp is a rip off because they can buy a Sony receiver in BB for less than the sales tax on the Bryston. |
"11-04-15: Taters
Jamnesta,
My local dealer host an audiophile meeting once a year. He calls it a wienerfest."
With a name like Taters, that's information best kept to yourself. |
I wasn't finding fault. I've annealed metals before, but not cables. I just wanted to find out what you used to heat the cable uniformly and at what temperature. |
"Also you need to be naive enough to spend substantially more than actually needed. Scenic statement "This is how much $$$$$ I can spend on wires" is completely foolish."
I disagree, although I understand your point. But once you get used to a certain level of income, its extremely hard to do with any less. Here's just one tragic example from my youth. There were a couple of years when my dad couldn't afford a pilot and had to fly himself. Sure, it was our own private jet. But do you have any idea how ashamed we all were to see our father fly his own plane?
As you can see, there's just a little more to all this than being naive. I'm scarred to this day just from that one incident. There's more, but I just don't have the stomach for it right now. |
"11-15-15: Czarivey
Mitch2,
your observation is again another proof that most of money paid for luxury and looks just like Prada or Luxotica.
The value is still somewhere in $50 range."
I take it, you've never had a pair of Prada shoes. I can't think of a better value. They last forever. I have 2 pairs that I know are over 10 years old and they're still like new. |
"Oh, and there's a world of difference between a socialist, and a democratic socialist."
A drone is a drone. Who keeps track of model numbers? |
"11-16-15: Nonoise
Pot meet kettle."
You have no idea, of course, but you just outsmarted yourself and don't realize it. lol. If anyone can see it, don't tell him. Lets see if he can figure it out on his own. |
"11-16-15: Schubert
Zd542, model numbers are kept by educated intelligent worker bees who don't drink kool-aid ."
My uncle Vinny told me its the serial numbers you really have to worry about. |
"Typically you ended up with the money because you were smart enough to put yourself in a position to even have a system and afford the hobby."
Something tells me you don't live in the US. Over here, typically someone does go out and work for the money. Quite often, though, someone else ends up with it. |
How do you go about annealing your own cables? |
"11-28-15: Nonoise
I have no doubt whatsoever with your findings, it's just the tone.
I actually wish I could afford to try the expensive cables out there."
If you live in the US, give The Cable Company a call. They'll send you a box full of whatever cables you want to demo. |
"11-29-15: Taters
Zd452,
They will send you all the cables you want if you are willing to pay the 5 percent of the retail price of the cable plus shipping. They don't provide this service for free."
The 5% they charge you goes toward the cables if you end up buying them. If not, it goes into your account and you can spend it however you like. They're not looking to keep your 5%. In fact, when you use the 5% to buy something, you'll still get the standard discount of 10% on your purchase.
You'll pay shipping, of course. That's just a given. |
