No, I am not. Why cynical? Even if I were a dealer it wouldn't change my question.
Its just that after hearing electronics at all prices for the past many years, and all over the USA, I am just surprised at the lack of press, and or recognition, given that his amp is better than most I have heard, near the price of $3500. The question is exactly what it appears to be. Just curious, what other amps do others out there think are in this league at this price? It's solid state, with 250wpc, and damping of >1600. This seems like a well designed piece to me, and an excellent value, but maybe I am out of touch though. Also, I love Bobby, but a good question in this instance would be, how do you judge deep bass response of an amp with a speaker that doesn't have any deeper bass response than the VSM's? They are good speakers but below 50hz or thereabouts is suspect. I am driving Von Schweikerts which go flat below 20, with great dynamics.(Also, by way of comparison, to my knowledge Belles doesn't have a $22,000 amplifier as does Lamm , and that is the point. He is achieving a lot, IMHO for this price range, that's all I was asking.
larry |
Actually, it was Doug Blackburn of Sound Stage! who reviewed the 350 so glowingly, and summarized with this quote, which I will put at the bottom of this message. After about only a week, and having gone from Gryphon to this, I am surprised at how good this amplifier is...at any price.
FROM DOUG BLACKBURN...
It doesnt happen often, but every now and then a reviewer is lucky enough to encounter a product that is so perfect that it is difficult to imagine anything being better in any substantial way. But what is unusual about the 350A is that it achieves this at the lowest price point Ive yet encountered.
I thought this was a reviewers fit of metaphoric magic, woven with hyperbole (or even, "extravagant exaggeration") , but darned if I don't agree.
Larry |
Yea,
One man's "bright" sound, is another's "extended". I don't find this amp, the least bit "dark". In the first 48 hours, it goes through all kinds of changes, as all gear does, and that is one of its stages, that it goes through, but after just one week, it sounds awfully good.
It's just that, I am personally, frankly amazed at this amp-- for this price. Let's try something fun. (OK, so you have more important things to do with your time than I do) Make a list of all the 6K to 10K solid state amps out there, with comparable wattage. Then audition all of them and compare them to the Belles 350. I personally, and I know this is not emperically true because I think so, think that very few, if any, can come close in all areas. The amp is an honest rendition of music, to me. It is not "dry" sounding like some, so called "neutral" amps, nor is it bass, or lower mid heavy, like some "rich" sounding amps. So, for me it sounds just about right. More resolution? Maybe...but only with a lot more, a LOT more money thrown at it!
I just am amazed that something this good is so little known. Anyone out there looking to spend about 6K on an amp and preamp should at least look at Belles.
IMHO.
Larry |
In reading the posts, it is apparent that some people think that my desire for this product to get more positive recognition, somehow translates to, Dave Belles wants it.
Of course, as one person pointed out, maybe he likes the virtual anonymnity, and is EXACTLY the size company he wants to be. I was only surprised, that given how good it is that it doesn't gain more recognition; this is not to be confused with what Dave wants, or needs.
It seems that EVERY ISSUE of Stereopile lately raves about Mus-c-l F-d-l-ty. Just curious, that's all.
Good listening,
Larry |
In all fairness, ten or fifteen years is a long time ago. I think, that he is completely responsive these days. I'm sure everyone has a bad story about just about every company out there. Actually, his personal attention was what drew me to him in the first place.
Give him another chance, and you'll be glad for it.
Larry |
Sorry, but I did not dismiss it. I put it in its proper context. Service is everything, but I, like you have never heard of any, repeat any problems with service with regard to Belles, prior to this one instance. Also, the issues he mentioned were more than twelve years ago. Being in the industry for 20 plus years, gives me a rather broad perspective. Let me site some rather large snafus which have reared their ugly heads through the years. Back in 1984 THIEL had too much viscous compound on their midrange drivers, of their newly released CS3, which caused the speakers to have a very sharp peak in the upper mid range. If someone brought that up, I would consider it old news. Also, Krell's Audio Video Standard, DID NOT WORK correctly, 4 years ago, and they finally quit making the product, and gave dealers full credit refunds on most if not all of them, and that was a $12K product, yet, old news again; even though they were in denial for months, claiming each instance to be isolated. The same is true of McIntosh, a company that replaced every MX 132 PrePro that they shipped to Nicholsons Hi Fi, in Nashville, TN due to digital circuitry problems, which caused them to all lock up. Let's be real here, every company has issues from time to time. Each of these companies, (THIEL may have been the exception) was in denial of the existance of these problems for months after they were reported. So in this Belles instance, one customer, again the only one I ever heard of does not come close to the enormous problems with these industry icons. So I respectfully disagree that I dismissed the problems, I simply put it in its proper perspective, and really do think that old news is simply that--old news. One customer does not create any worthwhile trend of poor service, especially compared to the above mentioned manufacturers. Even the customer who wrote the thread said that he would consider buying this product again.
Larry |
Actually, I would have to disagree that it is voiced to sound a certain way. I can, and have picked not only brands of electronics in blindfold tests, (with speakers I am familiar with),but also, speaker cable brands, as well as interconnects brands. That is not something to be in awe of, it is just noteworthy because of what I am about to say. Mr. Belles' gear has about as little of its own 'personality', or noticable voicing, as anything I have heard. That is true of the 350 amp and the 21A preamp. I just today, compared it to a well known, (Out of respect I won't mention the name) preamp, which costs $8K. The more expensive preamp did have a flavor, and was pleasant, but it was NOT as neutral. And that is quite a statement given that he builds his for $2500.
Calling his buyers cult following is a real backhanded comment. In the middle 1950's Ford Thunderbird outsold Corvette in multiples, and nobody called Corvette buyers cultists. They ended up capturing the whole of that market.
Why he doesn't sell more has to do with his capacity to build, and his desire, (he would have to address this) to maintain his company at a level he can enjoy, I would think.
First Sound Preamps are hailed as one of the finest preamps around, but they make very few. The amount of sales of a given product in any field do not necessarily have any bearing on the quality or even the success quotient of the company and its products. Success may be defined, in the mind of the creator, as the ability to make a few, and make those customers happy.
When I started in the Audio business, in 1982, nobody had heard of THIEL Loudspeakers, and they were in their 7th or 8th year.
Frankly, the average buyer of audio gear would be surprised how small many of the companies they buy from, really are.
The high end is mostly very small manufacturers, who comprise this cottage industry.
IMHO
Larry |
Inquired with whom regarding purchase? WHEN, AND WHAT WAS THE RESPONSE? If you call Power Modules, Dave Belles HIMSELF answers the phone. Give me a break.
I spoke to Dave today, and chatted just casually.
He told me and a friend a joke (not exactly Hennie Youngman) but funny. No rush job, just simple gentlemanly conversation. And Dave is truly a grand gentleman. CHALLENGE TO MATTY; IF YOU REALLY WANT TO BUY AN AMP POST YOUR REQUEST RIGHT NOW I WILL HAVE HIM SEND YOU ONE.(YOU WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR IT). THIS IS WHERE THE RUBBER HITS THE ROAD. I WILL BET ALL OF YOU THAT MATTY DOES NOT RESPOND!!!!!!
I love unsubstantiated bullsh-t like this.
I can honestly tell everyone here, I have just randomly called Dave 10 times, in the last six months, and never failed to reach him!!
We are all waiting for you to respond Matty.
Good listening to all sincere audiophiles.
Larry |
Maybe, just maybe Dave never got the email. Did that ever occur to you?
Instead of telling hundreds of readers here that "he needs to improve his service", a knee jerk response, you should have followed up. That assumes, of course, that YOU WANTED TO BUY ONE, WHICH YOU DON'T, which is why I said what I did about emailing us now to let us all know.
My world isn't perfect, sometimes these machines let us down. Your whole premise is patently incorrect based on the preponderance of evidence about Belles here from all the gracious respondants who have actually dealt with him.
Plus, you missed the point, WHICH IS, that he's the EASIEST manufacturer to reach, in person, at any time, on practically any day, that I have ever, ever dealt with.
I, and everyone here now know that your comments were misplaced, incorrect, and puffery. If you really want to buy one I gave you the chance which you passed on. If a lost email, or missed email, which happens all the time, changes your mind, you weren't a buyer anyway, something which is obvious to everyone reading this. What is not obvious and absolutely incorrect, is that Dave needs to improve his service...that's a load of hooey from a not participating, non buyer.
Good listening to all serious audiophiles,
Larry
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Wait, a flash just hit me. I know its revolutionary so let's do a trial run.
Instructions on ordering Belles (or any gear for that matter) just change names and assume that the Manufacturer HIMSELF answers the phone:
Pick up phone, (Make it brief, you're paying a nickel a minute)
Dial number (don't leave any out, you may get Greenpeace or Johnnies Hot Dog Stand)
DIAL:1 585 586 0740
Let ring...
Then (after he answers and says the name of his company, which he most likely will)
Dave: Power Modules...
Bumpkin (boy that name really suits you): Hi Mr. Belles?
Dave: Yes? (See how he keeps it brief to save you nickels?)
Bumpkin: I want an Integrated amp now.
Dave: OK, it'll take a week, I am PERSONALLY HAND WIRING THEM.(That little commercial cost you 2 seconds, or 1/30th of a nickel damn his eyes, tell him you'll take it off the price.
Bumpkin: Uh, OK.
Dave: Send (me or your dealer) a check for (fill in amount)
Bumpkin: Personal Check ok? (Remember the nickels, I can tell you from experience that personal checks are ok, if they're good, so that'll save you 1/60th of a nickle, right there)
Dave: Sure (C'mon Dave, talk faster, those damn nickels are starting to really add up here)
Bumpkin: (Name is perfect I've decided) OK, I'll send it to your address today, and enclose my shipping address.
NOTE to Bumpkin: I can save you 4/60th's of a nickel here, go ahead and throw caution to the wind and assume that those things are OK. He knows, and so do you, that you can probably write this on a note, or hey, even in third world countries, that information is on your check.
Bumpkin: Thanks
Dave: NO,Thank YOU Now here's the important part. Just hang up!
YOUR TRANSACTION IS COMPLETE!!!
Now this fans, is how real people communicate,and or buy things these days. With Dave right at your finger tips, you can be the proud owner of his (or any other audio gear) in a matter of days.
See? And, even the Bumpkin can do it. Don't be intimidated by all those confusing numbers on the phone, it really, really works!
I hope this humorous interlude makes up for the apparent angst in previous emails!
Larry |
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That was my point with Matty. I know I teased him a little too much. But, emails are so iffy. Especially, when some companies get 150 a day, and if they were all answered, production would stop.
Sorry Mattie. Just havin' a little fun. Dave is everything Tom and 84 and the others said. A grand gentleman.
I just got a private email from someone, raving over the time Dave spent with him on the phone. He bought a 150A, without ever hearing one, based on the talk with Dave, and of course the comments from the A'goners, and reviews.
Give him a call, really, he'll surprise you; but more important, you'll end up with a great amp,(maybe the best buy in audio) great service, with a terrific man standing behind it.
Best,
Larry |
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