What would you buy Sub $350 Firewire/USB DAC


Hello and thank you for reading my post.

I have a pair of B&W DM 610s with a Music Fidelity B1 amplifier. My old ADC CD player is slowly passing away, and I've been thinking of using my IBM X61 laptop as an audio source.

Here is a short list that I'm considering, and I would greatly appreciate any advice.

Best,

Music Prof.

StyleAudio Carat-HD1V
Styleaudio Peridot USB DAC
Fubar III
DIYEDEN SVDAC05 USB DAC
DIYEDEN SVDAC04 USB DAC
Blue Circle USB
AudioSector USB NOS DAC
Apogee Mini-DAC w/USB option
Peter Daniel NOS USB DAC
DacMagic Digital to Analogue Converter
Peter Daniel USB DAC
KECES 151 USB DAC
KECES DA-131 USB DAC
Vintage Audio Lab DAC
Squeezebox classic
Musiland MD 10 Bit Select USB DAC
DIYEDEN SVDAC05 USB DAC
Yulong DAH 1 USB DAC
music_prof

Showing 8 responses by ckorody

Get a Keces 151 USB DAC dor $250, and quit worrying. It will deliver what is on the CD.

No matter which DAC you choose; part one is to rip it right. Part 2 is to amplify it right.
Part 3 is to place your speakers correctly.

At the end of the day a DAC should have no character. It is simply a converter.

BTW forget about Firewire - the universe has chosen. There is no need for the bandwidth.
Hi Prof -

yep, they do all sound a bit different. Function of the way the wiring is done, chip used, power supply etc. as well as the designers choices about how to voice it.

What we pretty much know is that coming using a hard drive as a transport greatly improves sound quality by eliminating the problems that are inherent in a 40 year old realtime electro-optical-mechanical design.

And that second to the problems of variable spin speeds and lasers reading pits; the second biggest quality problem to date has to do with poor SPDIF implementation.

SPDIF and Toslink are legacy systems that will fade away over time - though that is probably a decade due to the lifespan of much of this gear.

Yes you can get a Toslink capable DAC and link it to your old CDP - but what's the point - the CDP is inherently quality limited and to buy a Toslink DAC now is to make a dead end investment.

What drives the consumer electronic market is volume. What has unprecedented volume right now is iTunes, iPod and iPhone. In the past 5-6 years, over 100 million consumers worldwide now have some or all of their music on a hard drive. Many only buy downloadable music. This is what is going to drive the technology going forward -

Keep in mind that 2 channel redbook format audio needs very little bandwidth - the current standards and technologies provide plenty.

That makes future proofing difficult since it is most likely that the next file transfer technology will be designed for broader bandwidth media and to be wireless.

Following this logic, for 2009 a DAC with USB and WiFi would be the ticket. To see beyond that wait for the next CES and the next Intel Developers Forum and Apple Developers Forum.

But in terms of what you can buy today with your budget, go USB. You are safe for at least 3 years which is darn good in this day and age. The market is just too big to move any faster.

ALSO As you point out, there are many headphone users. Keces just introduced their 152 for this market which combines the DAC, preamp and power amp functions in one small form factor. I am sure it sounds great; and I am equally sure you will see more of these kinds of designs coming from Taiwan and China.

Using Keces as an example most people are aiming at one market or the other - the issue of course being that headphone users don't need the kind of wattage that people need to drive speakers.

It will take some digging - look to the east.

As far as support - its tricky since shipping a product back to Taiwan for a repair and then shipping it back will cost a disproportionate amount of the initial purchase price. Coupled with the construction techniques used, outright replacement is probably more cost effective.

This is a situation where you query the supplier/manufacturer first about his policies. Chance are that if it runs for a week after it arrives, it will run for many years.

Its also a you pays your money and makes your choices thing - by giving up the traditional importer/distributor model and dealing with the manufacturer you get a lot more for your money. But you don't get the same kind of service that someone who manufactures in the US and has a dealer network can provide.

IMHO, the hot ticket soon will be an integrated amp with a USB DAC built in, sufficient wattage to drive the average speaker (whatever that is) and enough niceties like remotes and headphone jacks to compete with the other integrated amps in the market place.

Eliminating components saves money and improves sound quality. It also uses less space which is important in every culture but ours. And it is greener which sooner or later will make a difference.
The upsampling is a beast of a different color entirely - my only extended experience with it was with the TriVista. It was very smooth with no obvious artifacts but one day I just got up and turned it off. I just didn't like it.

Since that experience I have noticed that more and more people divide into two camps - NOS and upsample.

I suspect that this is one of those YMMV issues - either on the hardware side where the issue is how resolving your system is and what is your room like; on the software side where the issue may have something to do with what kinds of music and recordings you enjoy; and finally on the wetware side - how much have you listened and what do you listen for.

If there ever was a situation where GIGO applies, upsampling is it LOL

I tend to agree with you that it is unlikely you will hear much difference between the three DACs you mentioned. If you can, compare the DAC and Op Amp parts, and also try to get a sense of the power supply.

All things being equal it sounds as though you have done a good job in matching your system needs, budget and technology with the Vintage unit.

Give it a go and let us know what you think!
The USB to SPDIF box need not be an arm and a leg. There was a brilliant small device called the Waveterminal U24 which helped launch this whole evolution a few years ago. Trick is that it got its power from the USB cable which carries 5v - ergo no costly power supply, no big case etc.

Then Hagerman came out with one.

The hot ticket now for under $200 is the BlueCircle USB Thingee.

All these devices take the data from the USB and move it over to SPDIF. Neat, simple and compact. I can tell you from experience that I found that it took a very good SPDIF cable to make this work its best.

I do not believe that USB implementation is all that difficult. What I believe is that most audio manufacturers have their head in the sand hoping that the whole computer thing will go away.

That is why companies like Keces (and there are many others, just my current fave) who have a global perspective on the mass market are investing in figuring it out and evolving it.

What is wrong with this picture? USB/SPDIF conversion box $500, SPDIF cable $500, DAC $2500, allowance for power cords and tweaks $750... You don't need to spend $4,200 to get great sound from a $100 hard drive and some free software... think about it.
Well drubin - I don't know - I am not flogging the Hagerman (always upfront about what I have owned or tried) just trying to provide some historical context.

If you have spent the time and money messing with two box systems you know just how hard it is to achieve a satisfactory SPDIF implementation.

That is the main reason I recommend bailing on a USB > SPDIF solution and going straight USB. Plus going direct is much more cost effective which is a major concern for the Prof who started this thread.

I doubt that you will argue that you can get a great two box solution for $350... the SPDIF cable will cost more then that... I am prepared to say that he can get a great direct USB solution for that. (No, not reference but that is a silly game since he is not in that market)

Prof - Pacific imports some very slick gear from China (not Taiwan)

Scott Nixon was the first guy in the water with a tube dac which has had the dual virtues of being well regarded and very reasonably priced. Plus there are enough of them out there that you can probably pick one up used - and you can definitely sell it when you want to try something else.
Pacific Valvel certainly does put a US face on the product. The primary thing that came up when I researched them is that the products they sell have been properly specced and built for the US market - 117/60.

At the time one could order the same products directly from the factory for less money but apparently some people did not get US optimized equipment.

Prof - service is expensive - the product has to provide the dealer and the manufacturer margins...

And of course since this is a digital product, Moore's law more or less applies - someone will build more performance into a piece of silicon for the same money within 6-18 months.

It is axiomatic with these kinds of products that whatever you buy will shortly be rendered obsolete or at least old hat. It is equally true that it will always perform to its design level.

So it comes down to buying when you want or need something, knowing that something better or at least slightly different is coming.
With the Cambridge it seems as though you will be paying for an awful lot of marketing and a large number of features you most likely will never use...