brian27b,
Very good idea. I've been doing just what you want to do with an Oppo 105 for a few years now and know you can do the same with an Oppo 205. The only issue you'll run into doing this is that there are limited inputs using the 105/205 as a preamp. If you play mainly disks and computer audio it works great but if you have numerous sources, you may need to buy a separate switch box for ease of operation.
I use the 105 as the core of my combo 5.4 surround ht and 2-ch music system Here's how mine is setup:
I run an HDMI cable from my XFinity cable box to the HDMI input on the back of the Oppo.
You have a choice of either rca or XLR main L+R outputs for your front main speakers. I connect the Oppo's audio outputs (up to 7 plus a sub output on my 105 but I only use 5 of these plus the sub) directly to multiple separate amps:
The main stereo L+R outputs via a pair of XLR cables to mono-blocks.
The center channel via a single rca cable to a bridged stereo amp.
The rear L+R surround channel outputs via a pair of rca cables to a stereo amp.
The LFE/sub output via a single rca cable to a sub amp.
Of course, it's your choice if you want to use a single multiple channel amp or use separate amps.
My 105, and I believe the 205, does not have room correction like many modern A/V receivers but I really don't miss it since the Oppos do have an Audio Setup menu you can access through its remote and fine tune the sound either by ear or using a sound level meter while seated at your main listening position. The setup consists of the following:
1. Each surround speaker (front left, front right, center, rear left and rear right but not the LFE/sub) is individually set as either "Large" or "Small". Full range speakers you don't want the bass augmented by the sub(s) should be set to "Large" and speakers you want the bass augmented by the sub(s) should be set to "Small".
2. The crossover frequency is set from 40-250 Hz in 10 Hz increments. This setting instructs the Oppo to redirect any signals at or below this setting to the sub(s) for all speakers set to "Small".
3. The last step is to set the relative volume of each channel, including the LFE/sub, to your specific preference. Sitting at your listening position, you step through each surround channel and adjust the volume of each channel up or down individually until you're satisfied with the overall sound balance.
Not exactly room correction with mics and automated parametric equalization but it has worked very well in my 23 x 16 foot room.
The audio performance of the 105 is so good in fact that, after thorough comparison to my previous system using a separate VTL preamp (with expensive NOS Mullard tubes and a 'ht pass thru' switch) and a separate Parasound AV-2500 5.1 surround processor, I decided to streamline my system and removed and sold my preamp and processor. The Oppos both have the added benefit of being able to be used as a high quality music file streaming device and DAC, which means you can use it for computer audio, too. This is what I did with the money I got from selling my former preamp and processor. I bought a Synology NAS (network area server) that has a 2 TB hard drive and JRiver Media Center software program for my laptop. I then copied my entire cd collection to the hard drive and bought and downloaded several hi-res 24 bit/96 Khz music files to the hard drive, too.
This allows me to select a cd or hi-res file to play on my laptop. The Synology then streams the file from its hard drive to the Oppo either wirelessly or via a hard wired connection. The Oppo then converts the digital signal to analog via very high quality ESS Saber dac chips (ES9018 chips on the 105 and the latest chips on the 205) and passes the analog signals to the amps.
The result is a very convenient and great sounding method for music playback that you could venture into in the future if you wanted to.
In summary, the answer to your question is that using an Oppo 205 as an alternative to an A/V receiver is a great solution that also gives you a high quality 4K Bluray player with HDR10 that has a built-in surround processor, streamer and DAC, to boot.
Tim
|
Hi Matt,
I understand your skepticism.
I took a look at your system and it seems like a high quality system designed to play vinyl through a precision turntable, classic tubed electronics and premium speakers; always a good recipe for pleasurable music listening.
I watched the linked YouTube video you made on my laptop with a usb dac, class A headphone amp and headphones, too. I don't know how you recorded that video but the sound was actually very good on the Eric Clapton Unplugged blues song you played. I don't just mean good for a You Tube video but very good,period. Some deep bass and the smooth, organic sound of tubed playback managed to be conveyed on that video.
Anyway, I wanted to let you know that I'm not a total stranger to the sound of good quality playback equipment and sound. Previous to using my 105 as a preamp, I used a VTL 2.5L preamp with NOS Mullard tubes paired with various mid-level ss amps (McCormack and Aragon) with the 105 used as a CD/SACD and DVD-A disc player for 2-ch music. I loved the smooth, organic, textured and realistic sound stage I thought the VTL and tubes was imparting on my music.
I thought it would be the last component I'd ever remove from my system. However, with the separate VTL preamp just for music and separate Parasound AV-2500 surround processor/preamp just for 5.1 ht surround sound, I found the hookup to be a pain due to the extra cabling required and the operation being a bit complex for my wife to use.
So, I spent a Saturday comparing the sound of my system with the VTL to the sound without it, going direct from the 105 to my amp. I was
very surprised to discover just how good my familiar music sounded connected to my class D mono-blocks I used by this time.
With the Oppo connected directly to my class D monos, I noticed I could much more easily determine the quality of the recordings on my familiar music than I could with the VTL in the chain. All my music sounded at least good thru the VTL. Through the Oppo, poor recordings didn't but good recordings sounded extremely good.
I actually surprised myself by preferring the much more neutral and transparent quality of the sound of the Oppo connected directly to the monos, although I think the accurate and neutral class D monos contributed, too. I had always thought I preferred the euphonic quality of tubes, with their added emphasis on even ordered harmonics, but I had to be honest and trust my ears.
I agree with you, it is hard to believe an under $1,500 Bluray player also has a very high quality audio section but, once you realize that was a primary Oppo design goal for the 105 and 205 and learn of the high quality internal parts used in pursuit of this goal, it's much easier to understand why they performs so well.
Of course, I wouldn't suggest the Oppo for you since you have a music only system and prefer a vinyl source with tube electronics. But the Oppo for brian27b's combo ht and music system is ideal since it's an excellent 4K and HDR10 Bluray player, very good CD/SACD/DVD-A disc player, has a very good built-in surround processor music and streamer/DAC along with its ability to function well as a limited input high quality preamp.
I suggest you may want to check out the sound performance of one in this configuration before dismissing the 105/205 audio sections' competence.
Tim
|
"I think part of Oppo's secret is that some or all design work is done in Silicon Valley, and the manf. is done in China."
randy-11,
I'm not sure about the point you're trying to make with your comment in quotations above.
Can you clearly state your point so that readers do not need to infer it?
Thank you,
Tim
|
"
Oppo is quality. Period"
Hi alkaloid,
I completely agree with you, Oppo is quality and a bargain, too.
It's odd but there seems to be a bias against Oppo by some here on Audiogon and some other A/V forums.. These individuals typically attempt to convince others that Oppo players don't perform as great as so many owners testify that they do. I can only assume their motive is to sway the opinions of those considering purchasing an Oppo since we all know they'd have absolutely no chance of swaying the opinions of actual Oppo owners.
However, I have discovered a very interesting trait that all of these anti-Oppo posters rather predictably have in common: they all have zero experience with actually using any Oppo model in their systems. This was a real eye opener for me. Unfortunately, their eyes, ears and mind seem to be firmly shut.
Now one of these Oppo detractors, randy-11, has abandoned trying to find any hint of a fault with the performance of any Oppo model. Instead he has stooped to an approach of vaguely implying that Oppos should not be purchased because they're designed in the U.S. but manufactured in China just like thousands of other products. Or because they dare to offer an affordable entry level Blu-ray player model (with very good audio and state of the art video performance) and, for a reasonable bit more $, a top of the line Blu-ray player model (with state of the art audio and video performance) that is an incredible bargain.
Well, I'm sure we're both very glad randy-11 was there to expose the truth about Oppo's nefarious and shameful practices. The nerve of Oppo! Not even trying to hide the fact their products are manufactured in China so that they can do what??? Offer products that are outstanding in quality and performance at an incredibly affordable price??? What are they thinking??? Hrumph!!
I just wish I had known about these vague implications before I ignorantly plopped down $1,200 on my Oppo 105, the best single upgrade I have made to my system, ever.
Later,
Tim |
Hi willemj,
Randy has a tendency to post vague and cryptic comments, that he may believe are making some sort of statement or point, that I often have difficulty deciphering.
He also has a tendency to not respond when asked to clarify his posts. The combination of making vague, cryptic comments and not responding to requests for clarification, is a very poor method of communicating, especially on an internet forum.
I couldn't make heads or tails from his post, requested he clarify and I'm still waiting for a clarifying response.
You were kind enough to step in and clarify the matter to a degree. You may be right, he may not be criticizing Oppo's business model. I really have no problem with him criticizing Oppo's business model or criticizing anything he deems as deserving of criticism.
In this most recent case, my issue is his very poor written communication skills evidenced by the fact that we are both currently left wondering what thoughts he was trying to convey with his comments and why he brought Oppo's business practices into this thread's discussion in the first place.
I either forgot or never knew Randy uses an Oppo in his system. Given his efforts to jerry-rig his system in an effort to achieve a more 'euphonic' sound from his naturally very neutral Oppo as you described, I'm thinking it may be best to leave Randy alone with his tinkering and just ignore his vague and cryptic postings going forward.
I'm beginning my ignoring of Randy's posts beginning......NOW.
Thanks,
Tim |
Hi willemj,
I wish I could enjoy Randy's posts. I'm usually just left confused and frustrated.
I know I probably shouldn't be so hard on poor inarticulate Randy but I think you're right about a little extra effort going a long way. For example, if he'd just proofread and edit his posts to ensure his posts will be easily understood, I'd stop messing with him.
If he reads this, I hope he takes this as constructive criticism the way it's intended. I've been justifiably criticized for being a bit too verbose on some of my posts. I wasn't offended, took it as constructive criticism and have been trying to keep my posts more succinct.
Later,
Tim |
I may be a scientific dotard, but I thinks I gots me some mad grammar skills.
Tim |
Hi Matt,
Tell your daughter she did an excellent job on that video. I was listening via some good headphones through a JDS Labs DAC and a class A headphone amp and I was actually stunned by the quality of the audio and the video was also quite good. I don't know how old she is, but she's obviously very good at this stuff. I wish she was the recording engineer on some of my favorite musical tracks. Well done!
"One thing I will say is that I know what sounds great and what doesn't and I was just trying to point out how much a proper preamp will affect the sound of the system and in many cases can inject a real beauty and warmth that many of these digital systems need. "
I completely agree with your comment. I have no doubt a good quality active preamp 'injects a real beauty and warmth that many of these digital systems need' because I experienced exactly what you describe in my own system using my former VTL 2.5L preamp with NOS Mullard tubes. I really enjoyed the qualities that this preamp imparted on my system for over 5 years and truly thought the VTL would be the last component I'd ever be removing from my system.
But I realized my system was becoming overly complex with 2 preamps; the VTL for 2-channel music and with a flip of the HT Pass Thru lever a Parasound AV-2500 preamp/processor for ht surround.
I had this complexity along with the operational and hookup complexities in mind when the idea of streamlining my system, by removing both components and all the associated interconnect cables, and just using the Oppo 105 as a preamp/processor instead first struck me.
Before I compared system performance of each configuration, I knew I was heavily biased toward keeping the VTL not only because I thought my system would sound better with it, but also because I had recently bought and installed an expensive set of 4 replacement NOS tubes.
As soon as I decided music on my system sounded just as sweet, dimensional, textured and beautiful using my Oppo 105 as the sole preamp and reported on my findings, I realized many who hadn't heard the comparison first hand would question my decision.
"The variable volume is for driving a pair of headphones you plug into the 1/4 inch jack. That's why Oppo put it there, period."
The volume control for the BDP-105 is, as previously stated, selectable as either fixed or variable. But it's used both for the analog and headphone outputs and actually controls volume inside the 32-bit ESS DACs themselves. It has plenty of dynamic range to preserve all 16 -24 bits of data.
I think it's very encouraging and impressive that you're able to achieve system sounds you enjoy through both vinyl and digital based systems.
Thanks,
Tim
|
"
Thank you all for your help and opinions and Tim, appreciate the detail breakdown on how you use your Oppo. Now i have to choose a multi channel amp and figure out how i would connect my Sony HAP1ZES."
Hi Brian,
I guess that means you've decided to buy an Oppo 205?
What amplifiers to use could probably be a separate thread but I'm okay with offering some suggestions if you don't want to start another thread.
Either of the Parasound
class AB
multi-channel amps you mentioned (A51 andAa52 plus) earlier would work well and easily drive your very efficient Klipsch Heresy speakers.
Having owned a pair of the original Klipsch Heresy speakers when I was in college, I know the A52 plus with 125 watts/ch into 8 ohms is more than enough power to drive your speakers to ear-splitting levels. I think any of the Parasounds will provide very good clean power that has a smooth mid-range and treble but may leave you wanting a bit better bass response.
I can give you alternative amp solutions but would like some more information from you before I do so to better tailor them to your preferences and needs. Please answer these questions:
1. What's your room size?
2. What's your budget?
3. What type of home theater setup do you want? 5.1, 7.1? Atmos? Sub(s)?
4. Do you have any size, weight or heat constraints for the amp location?
5. Are you set only a single multi-channel amp for all channels or are you open to some combination of amps to cover all channels?
Thanks,
Tim
|
Hi Brian, Excellent choice. I think you'll love it. Do you have a 4K hdtv? Can't you just hook-up both the Sony HAP1ZES and Oppo 205 via ethernet cables to your router? Sorry, I'm not very familiar with the Sony. For a single chassis 5 channel amp, you can either go with a big heavy class AB type like the Parasounds or go with a much smaller, lighter class D or H amp. They're just as powerful as the class AB amps but use significantly less electricity to operate and run much cooler. In my opinion, the class D amps I now use in my combo music and ht system equal or outperform my former class AB amps in every category I care about; better bass response, quieter, more dynamic, more detailed with a similar smooth and natural mid-range and treble. They use so little electricity, in fact, that I just leave them on 24/7 so they're always warmed up. I decided to go with mono-block amps for my main l+r speakers and separate amps for my center and rear surrounds rather than a single 5 channel amp. I did this mainly for the ease of making any possible amp changes I may want to make in the future. You never know if an amazing new technology may be developed or you just get the urge to try something new or different. I paid a bit more overall but consider it worth it. I thought you might appreciate this added flexibility. If you prefer class AB and are okay with the less than optimum bass response noted by some reviewers, I think the Parasound A52 Plus is a good choice. If you want to try class D or H, they're often sold internet direct and offer free in-home trial periods. Most offer mono-block, stereo and multi-channel models. Here are some high quality companies/options: 1. http://www.d-sonic.net/products/stereo-amplifiers/2. https://wyred4sound.com/products/power-amps3. https://www.crutchfield.com/p_745M27/NAD-Masters-Series-M27.html?tp=180&awkw=82787632105&awa... 4. www.reddragonaudio.com/collections/amplifiers All these would easily fit in your rack. Tim |
Hey Brian,
If you're going to definitely buy the 205, I suggest you call Oppo Support at
650-961-1118 and ask them the best method to connect your
HAP1ZES to the 205 with the 205 acting as the preamp.
Their product support is excellent; they really helped me out hooking up my NAS, laptop and JRiver software with the 105 for my computer audio setup. Which, by the way, you could also setup with the 205 in the future if you'd like.
My guess is they'll suggest a usb connection between the two components but I'm not certain.
"
My dealer carry's both NAD and Parasound, so i am going to compare Parasound A51 and the new A52 plus with the NAD M27."
That sounds ideal if they'll let you audition them in-home on your system. Once you have the 205 and it's properly connected to the Sony, you'll be all set to compare the 3 amps.
I think you'll discover that all 3 amps are very good performers. In my experience with comparing the performance of good class AB and good class D amps, the most obvious differences I noticed were in the bass response, noise floor level and dynamic range. I noticed other differences, such as detail levels and degree of neutrality, but these were not as obvious.
I'd also suggest playing your best engineered recordings because a good recording will sound exceptionally good but a bad recording will definitely be noticed as such through a good class D amp.
Please keep us posted on your impressions.
Tim |
Hi paulrp0,
I would suggest you just use the 205 as the prepro and use a good pair of XLRs to hookup the stereo l+r/front l+r Oppo outputs direct to your Meridian 568 5ch amp. Then hookup the rears and center direct to the 568 via rca unbalanced cables. The result is simple, direct and streamlined connections between prepro and amp that I'm almost certain would sound very good.
This is the hookup I use on my Oppo 105 and I know for certain that it sounds very good for both 2-ch stereo and 5.1 surround. Including your g68 AVD and HDMI switcher in the chain seems redundant and unnecessary to me. The 205 uses multiple excellent and expensive Saber dacs with volume adjustments communicated digitally to, and actually performed on, each channel's dac chip so there's no dropped bits and missing information.
There's also also an audio setup menu that allows you to set the relative volume of each channel and whether or not you want bass assistance from your sub. But there's no actual room correction with a mic, software and parametric equalization. It's completely sufficient for my needs but may not be for yours.
I'm really not familiar with the performance level of your g68 and whether you consider room correction a requirement but, of course, you could always audition and compare your system performance with and without the g68 and just choose the one you like best.
Tim
|
Hi unsound,
Good point, mismatches can cause issues.
Thanks,
Tim |
roy1919,
You have some very specific requirements that I would recommend a good local a/v installer would be best able to solve for you. Sorry, I don't have better answers for your particular situation.
Tim |
Hi english210,
I don’t have any issues using the XLR cables for the stereo/l+r mains and the unbalanced rca for the surround outputs. I doubt you will either.
By ear, I can tell the XLR seem to have a slightly higher gain than the rca so the XLR sounds slightly louder.but not dramatically louder.
Even if the XLR does sound significantly louder to you, the audio configuration section of the Set Up menu allows you to adjust the relative volume levels of both the stereo/l+r mains and all of the surround channels to match the output volumes either by ear or with the assistance of a sound level meter.
So, you can relax. You should have no issues with mismatches using the XLR outputs to your Odyssey amp and rca outputs to your AVR.
Tim. |
