More unfortunate comments from Macrojack.
Count me too as one of the "fawning fools" that are Tyler customers (even though I regularly attend audio shows, peoples' homes and dealers to listen to many other brands each year big and small; keeping up with the other options out there). As for the dealer... sounds indeed like someone with an agenda... Most dealers that are reputable won't talk down competing products... they let their product perform for itself. You won't get a response from Tyler here though as he does not read the discussion boards... too busy building the speakers!
I am happy to hear Kanuk that you will have an opportunity to listen to the speakers yourself in a home setting similar to yours. You can then be your own judge as to whether they satisfy your needs. As for me, I have been an owner (of the Linbrook Signature System) for about 4 years and still have not seen or heard anything to copel me to switch. Still looking...
---Dave |
I guess this is my lucky audio day! Another fellow Audiogon members from Montreal just informed me he is getting his pair of WIIs at the end of the month and invited me to come with my amplifier, similar room size, bigger in fact. Easy! |
OK, Mr. Kanuk:
I have done my best to give you the straight scoop. Here is some more, intended to get to the bottom of where this thread is going.
Are you living in America? Even if you are in Europe, I think that one telephone call to Tyler will clear up all this stuff. After all the sonic praise for Tyler's products, I did not mention an equally important point- Tyler's super great customer service and AVAILABILITY by phone or email to clear up ANY question. If you have not done so, I again recommend that you telephone him today. Mysteries will be debunked!!
Regarding the dealer's claims, NO, they are NOT TRUE. Tyler does buy his crossover components (and designs) from Madisound. If he is not satisfied with his own ears, he re-hires them for another round of design. His wife assembles and solders the crossover components in his shop. His brother is the cabinetmaker. Yes, he makes all cabinets in his shop in Kentucky. See, mysteries debunked! It's that simple. One conversation with Ty and you will see exactly what I mean. Until then, we will see a bunch of questions and chatback.
Good luck- get back with us after your call. |
Macrojack - I think it's fair to post your observations of the Tylers sound as you heard it along with a description of the environment in which you heard it along with a description of the equipment used to drive it. Critical information to those who you would like to act on your advise. But to just post ad hominem attacks, especially those extending to your fellow audiophile enthusiasts, without critical detail is at best very unattractive, and IMHO worthless!
Kanuk - I've owned Tyler Linbrook Signature Systems and used them for about 2 years. They are not the speakers you are considering but if you are interested in my experience with them send me an e-mail. Or you can just look up my system comments and fill in the blanks. Good luck in your choice. |
Do you work for the dealer mentioned above?...If not, you should apply immediately for the next available sales & BS position. I'm sure you would fit right in.
BTW...If I'm a "fawning fool" for having purchaed a Tyler product, Then I'm certainly a very happy one!
Cheers! |
My conversation with Ty about 5 years ago led me to believe that he is first and foremost a woodworker. So I believe he makes his cabinets, or at least oversees their construction. The bit about him sanding your very speakers sounds like a photo-op.
Ty has also demonstrated fantastic marketing acumen to have brought his enterprise so far. As a company Tyler Acoustics reminds me of Legacy. Both provide "me too" designs where function follows form at a significant distance.
Tyler is a very nice young man who saw an opportunity to turn his woodworking skills into a speaker biz and subsequently discovered the fawning fools who populate the audio world. They sanctified him and begged him to take ever more of their money for ever more expensive cabinets with ever more drivers. Ty's a nice guy. He obliged. |
Really nothing new here, Kanuk. The info on Ty outsourcing his crossovers designs has been well known for for some time. Try doing a search on the Audio Asylum forums and you'll see what i mean.
As far as the cabinets ... This is so far from the truth, it's rediculous. When I took a trip to the Tyler factory I saw for myself Ty sanding away on the very speakers that eventually would be sitting in my living room.
I don't think I was hallucinating.
Your so called "dealer"...has an agenda..one that probably involes you purchasing from him, no doubt. |
This is what I received via email from a dealer. Obviosuly, the fact that Tyler is bypassing dealers makes me think these are either irrelevant or faulse allegations but since I have reasons to believe that that person may be emailing other Agoners who show interest in Tyler, I invite Ty to come and challenge the following - not that that there is anything wrong with outsourcing cabinet or Xovers, even the very best do it sometimes: Hello,
I was told by someone with extensive history in this business that Tyler crossovers are from Madisound parts supply and I don't believe he makes the cabinets either.
His sound at CES this year, using expensive Gill/Art Audio electronics, was a mid fi type of sound, average and ordinary.
The hype on Tyler comes from the Audiogoners that love to buy direct, but that doesn't mean you are getting quality product, or that it will perform, and it doesn't mean that you got a good deal either.
For that amount of investment, there are a lot of alternatives.
Good luck with your search.
Frustrated dealer or legitimate concerns or both? |
Kanuk my Linbrook sigs are in my room sized 20X30 with cathedral ceiling. My Nuforce ref 9 SE V2s are rated at 300 watts into 4 ohms, which is the sensitivity of LSS. And i get a wide deep sound stage, seamless music delivery those big speakers disappear and very enjoyable music listening sessions that are fatigue free. You will be giving up a better bottom end no doubt but not much else. Doing room node checks my LSS start sounding at 20 cycles and at 25 cycles are playing solid bass sounds. Do try and audition a pair if possible. They may work for you and save you some cash. If i were in your position i would most deffinantly try and give Woodmeres a audition also.
Good luck in your quest |
I have a Unico Hybrid 80wpc and can always upgrade to the SE if needed if the WIIs are that good. I will check the Linbrook System as well, that would let me some $$$ to upgrade my amp and I believe that Linbrook Sys with better amp will be better than WIIs with a lesser amp. And trade up is always an option with Tyler. |
Kanuk:
Might I suggest a game plan for you?
1. Call Tyler today and ask about pricing, options and amplification.
2. If you decide to pull the trigger but don't have the ideal amp to drive them, just use the amp you have now and change out amps later. The speakers will still sound great with 50 watts (I don't know how many watts you currently have), they just won't be in "full bloom." As time goes on, pick up your ideal amp.
The speakers are that good, IMO, to buy first. Speakers now and amp later if you must. Hope this helps. |
YES!...There still a good value...considering that the Seas drivers in the Tylers are being used in some other speaker designs costing 20k or more, ( I'm thinking Joseph Audio and Von Schweikert, to name a few)
The price increase probably better reflects the REAL value of the Tyler's. I remember on several occasions I've talked to Ty and told him I was suprised he was charging so much LESS than his competion.
I suggest you talk to Ty...he's a great guy and just might be able to make a purchase worth it to you, regardless of his advertised prices. |
what happened to the price of the Woodmeres today??? from $7,500 to $12,500 for the IIs and up to $16,500 for the larger model? a reflection of value, cost or someone who starts being more "business" based on product reviews?! at $12,500, are the IIs still a good deal? |
Hi Kanuk...
Rtilden says it best...I would add my own experience not with the II's...but with the BIG brother..The Woodmere.
I've had mine for a little over 3 months and can honestly say that I not only continue to be impressed with the craftmanship, but the SOUND.. I mean,my GOD does this speaker make MUSIC?...You bet they do!..hands down the finest quality music making I've ever heard...and I've heard more than my fair share of speakers in my nearly 35 years of having an audio system in my home. If you're anywhere near Louisville, KY, I would be glad to welcome you in to my home for a demo.
FYI...If you decide to get the II's..get the external x-over modification.Makes a good sounding speaker, even better by lowering mechanical and electronic noise.Well worth the modest cost increase. |
I've had a couple of Tyler speakers and B&Ws, loved both, totally impressed by the build quality of the B&Ws ... but they took (albeit with great ease) large horsepower to let them bloom, bring them to life, which was overwhelming in a very positive way, but the Tylers could respond in equally pleasing ways ... at lower volumes ... which for me meant the Tylers were more versatile ... you won't actually go wrong with either, but I'd bet that the Tylers will make you forget about checking out other speakers ... at least until that natural curiosity returns |
Rtilden is spot-on accurate. Tyler speakers in general are a perfect match for CODA, IMO. You may want to also check out the Linbrook Signature System from Tyler as well. If you talk with Ty, he can point you in the right direction... Also, as Aktchi has already correctly stated, Ty can also try and find a current owner near you that may let you try out the speakers for yourself in a their home setting so you can draw your own conclusions.
Good luck,
---Dave |
Kanuk:
Your choice of Tyler's Woodmere 2 speakers would be a good one. I own a pair with the outboard crossovers, and I am very impressed. Imaging, presence and natural sound are characteristic at low, medium and high volumes. They play nice small ensembles, large orchestral works and good old rock and roll equally well. I expect these speakers to be my last pair I own, provided that they last 25 years.
Wonderful, smooth, natural midrange and highs are particular strengths of the W2s. The bass is very tight and definitely not overblown.
I questioned Ty quite a bit regarding power amps to drive them. Evidently, they like the juice. 100W is the entry point to make them sing, according to Ty, and they do even better with more power. This led me to use a 220 Watt SS CODA integrated amp, which is a perfect match, in my opinion. Based upon the size of your room, I would say that something over 100W would be recommended. I would like to hear these speakers with a large tube amp, but I haven't had the chance.
Please feel free to email me directly with any specific questions you may have. |
Kanuk you are going to get a lot of suggestions from Goners to go with there choice of speakers. Stay with your thoughts and give Ty a call to set up a audition in your area.
Yes i have Tys Linbrook Sig System and they are a super full range speaker and truly fill the bill for me.
Build quality, solid sound design and Tys personal touch are a great combo to put your money on. |
depends on what you currently have and like... |
My advice is keep looking. I tend to favor very high -efficiency speakers with interesting technology or a very good pedigree. Your current line of inquiry will lead you to neither. |
Aktchi's advice is very good. Before committing to some very large speakers, it would be wise to see and listen to them. I heard these at RMAF 2007 and thought they sounded good but I was not blown away. They were gorgeous in the Zebrawood and I like the proportions and layout of the speaker. Build quality appeared top notch. I would contact Ty at Tyler and ask him if there is a "house sound" to the lineup. I would then try to demo any Tyler speaker locally or purchase one of the pre-owned Tylers I often see on the 'Gon. Ty has a generous trade in policy so you have little to lose by moving up the line. |
Kanuk
Use the money you have budgeted to buy the used B&W or Thiel. With your room deminsions either should work well.
Paul |
HI Kanuk, depending on where you are located, Tyler might be able to put you in touch with a Woodmere II owner near you, so you can see/hear them yourself. |
