The Future of Audio Amplification

kalali

what/whom are you speaking to?

ricevs43 you said "George thinks he knows what is wrong with class D and he lets us know constantly" That does not mean he isn't a fan (if it's the same George) .

He reviewed a Nord class D with a Hattor passive pre, which I had just purchased to go with my then Emerald Physics 100.2SE monos (prior to that I had 2 generations of W4S amps). He pointed out these were an impedance mismatch. He suggested the Nord as they matched, but Im in USA and they come from EU and required 2-3 weeks build time, then ship. I sold the EPs and got a Audio Alchemy DPA -1 (class D hybrid), apparently also a impedance mismatch, about that time I came across a deal for a Audio Alchemy DDP-1 (DAC/Pre) and am EXTREMELY happy.

After the purchase I found a March of 2016 TAS review of the pair, comparing them to the uber expensive Soulution amp/pre (both of same designer; Peter Madnick. These beauties MSRP @  $1995 I am told recently, that Peter sold to Elac who will be redesigning to a bigger chassis

shad,

Only of your system is 100% true balanced, but then you won't need tubes anyway. True (differentially) balanced cures a lot of ills. Sadly, most reviewers have no clue

George, I have used several upgraded fuses ovr the last decade. I find them beneficial and each different in the sonic interpretations

RE: Passive Pres: Are they TRUE passive if they have a input buffer?

I don't doubt the NuPrime is great, but how many of us have 8K for amps? If the tech interests you, check out Nord from the EU. Very reasonably priced and high quality using latest IcePower

IMHO, the underlying question to the future of class D is:

Who is going to buy super exotic (expensive) USED amplifiers? Recalling the TAS March 2016 review of my Audio Alchemy stereo amp and dac/pre @ was $1995 each. The reviewer, Robert Harley (gave them Editors Choice Award)  compared their sound to the Soulution amp/pre which I think was priced near $60,000: the reviewer  noted that both were designed by Peter Madnik, and that the AA components were not sonically that far off of the uber expensive, and highly praised Soulution components 

Here's a great quote from erik in his AudioGon class D thread:  "Sighted or blind, I cannot hear a difference between them an Parasound A23s. None. Zero. Nada."

Now I owned Parasound A 23, several W4S stereo/mono/ multi channel amps, Emerald Physics 100.2 SE monos and now my Audio Alchemy stereo amp, and I can definitely hear the generational improvements, and the AA (apparently with HypeX modules) stands way above those that I owed. The AA amp had considerably more wallop than the 4xs as expensive (MSRP) EPs, which can often be ha for ~$2000 the pair these days 

Snippet from Stereophile August 2016 (according to review the stereo amp is essentially the same topology as the monos):

"Madnick told me that, inside the DPA-1M, the signal is fed to a differential pair of JFETs feeding a low-power MOSFET driver stage. The circuit is servo-controlled to cancel any offset and to avoid having to use coupling capacitors in the signal path. This input circuit is powered by a dedicated power supply with ultra-low-noise voltage regulators. The class-D Hypex output module is powered from a switching power supply. The DPA-1M is a bridged design, which Madnick considers "the best-sounding way to do it." Of course, the sonic characteristics of the DPA-1M depend not only on its circuit topologies, but on the choice of specific components, PCB layout, and fabrication materials, as well as the selection of internal wiring and, one assumes, various proprietary factors. 

There was certainly nothing about the sound that screamed "class-D." In fact, had I been told that I was listening to a high-power class-AB amplifier—the kind that would require the help of a friend to lift it—I would have had no reason to doubt the truth of that statement.

Theta comparison;  And so, in a more modest way dictated by its price, is the DPA-1M. Like the Prometheus, it produced no artifacts, and added none of the "clinical" sound for which class-D amplifiers are often criticized. (FURTHER >80% OF THE SONIC GOODNESS AT 1/3 THE PRICE!)"

So, whereas the older class D left many of us wanting, the current and near future of class D is such (IMHO) that people who own uber expensive A/AB amps will already have a hard time getting pennies on the dollar

Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/audio-alchemy-dpa-1m-monoblock-power-amplifier-page-2#X4UzH1ZEC5...
Read more at https://www.stereophile.com/content/audio-alchemy-dpa-1m-monoblock-power-amplifier#DaPTJ23tBl4br8kO....

^^^ LOL

Witch hunt

I've owned the for over 10 years, including my SVS subs. NEVER had a problem

Nord has what appear to be great value for mostly the same Ncore and Ice amps (stereo/mono) as the uber expensive companies 

NCore: The new board uses two Op Amps per channel and runs even further into Class A delivering up to 250mA of Class A current fed into the Hypex NC500 module.

When I said sell your class A, AB, tube amps NOW before you can only get pennies on the dollar, what I meant was $5,000+++ amplifiers days are over, at least for anyone who does a modicum of research prior to purchase, or who expects commensurate value before spending 2-3-4++ times the money, or who isn't suffering from Napoleon issues.

Each day that I follow this thread and listen to my system with a lowly Audio Alchemy stereo amp (MSRP $2K) and then listen with an even more critical ear, I remain amazed at the sweet sound it produces IN MY CURRENT SYSTEM. When I bought the Hattor XLR passive pre I experienced a impedance mismatch, which I resolved by getting the AA matching DAC//Pre

Again, I refer anyone to the March 2016 review, wherein Robert Harley compares the AA kit to Soulution EXTREMELY favorably (same designer). Of course, if one's system tends toward bright then, who knows?  And I am well aware that older Class D tech left a lot to be desired

Now that all said, I admit to wanting to explore more class D options. Nord's NC MK II monos are drawing me near, but funds ddo not llow me to get them without first selling mine, which I would not do as it provides so much musical pleasure

LOL clearly you are defensive when YOU need not as you have owned and enjoyed your amps for 10 years, you will likely be buried with them as I plan to do with my 22 year old Yamaha Royal Star motorcycle

Your 10 yo Mac tube amps are based on tube tech that was around for decades. That they might be worth $5K today would be for collectors  more than for what can bought today, whereas class D was going through technology growing pains 10 yeas ago.

These days class D 's are damned good and in many opinions (Robert Harley as one example) equal to or better for a LOT less money than whatever the equivalent Mac to your 10 yo Macs would cost today

Dec 2018 TAS Jonathan Valin reviews MBL class D offerings and says: 

For a preamp priced a hair under $15k and a pair of monoblock amps about a third the price of the Constellation stereo amp, this was highly competitive performance.

and with  MBL 101 E Mk.II omnidirectional.speakers he says: 

it was the sheer joy I experienced listening to the system. Driven by the Noble Line electronics the 101 E Mk.IIs were and are nothing if not continual goosebump-raising fun.

Now the MBLs pre and monos butt up against $50K, which is about on third the cost of their non class D

No one has mentioned GaN class D yet. Seems to be a game changer

GuidoC

You seem like the perfect candidate to get the GaN amps

I have owned 4 different gen class Ds, Parasound A21,  and a behemoth Kinergetics KBA 75, which I think was puree class A. It grabbed a hold of the heads on my then Genesis Vs, like none of the other amps I tried on it

^Yes, George. and that was th case with all previous class Ds that I owned, but, the Audio alchemy is different. I can hear the resonance and warmth of same inside acoustic guitars, coronets...

FYI: as much as I hated to, I sold my Hattor XLR, but the Audio Alchemy DAC/Pre is damned nice and pairs perfectly with my AA stereo amp

George, are you not the same George who reviewed he Hattor passive pre with the Nord class D?

Thanks Ric, but @ $4K US per, I would need to take a loan out on my house, so I would probably get the GaNs first. However, I might be able to extend my budget for your amp to see how it compares to my Audio Alchemy DPA-1, although I am currently looking for a pair of their monos.

Found these on AC/Nuprime: Here’s one from New Zealand another from Sonic Unity

https://totallywired.nz/nuprime-2/nuprime-evolution-one/

https://sonicunity.com/pages/the-nuprime-evo-one-review-first-listening-session

Ric, really good input (NPI) from you;) and likely why Peter Madnick's AA design got such rave reviews. Owning the DPA-1 (stereo amp) the only tim I notice glare is from poorly recorded discs. And yes, I recall ringing whn I had my KBA 75 with chassis long heatsinks

plga, lucky you. Is it the NC 500 Mk II?  I am close to pulling the trigger on a pair of Audio Alchemy monos for about the same money as the Nord Mk II. Not surprising, it's out of stock. Wish I could hear them. Im in S Florida

https://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/nord-one-se-nc500

plga, I just checked Nords site. It would cost > $2.2k for the Mk IIs. I don't mind the wait, but I can get a pair of AA monos for ~ $1500 (MSRP $3990) and that extra $700 I would need to spend now is a big stretch. I realize that the perceived value in the new amps could pay off at some later date, and that when I sell the AAs, they might further drop in value when I decide to sell

ric I did not find the Audio C link you referred to. Maybe Im looking in the wrong place. I am new to the circle and cannot use the search feature

Reply 97 says Title of the thread: Amplifiers with IcePower 1200AS2, class D module.

Ric, I found it, but I don't see anything specific about mono v stereo. That said, my last 4 class Ds were monos. Only my current AA PA -1 is stereo. Too bd your amps aren't ready

I have a chance to do a swap with a guy who has the AA monos for my stereo amp +  $$$, but as class D is evolving so quickly, I am concerned that I will not be able to get anywhere near what I am paying, which is 50% off MSRP

so Kosst, are you saying all class D has audible distortions? What about A and or A//B? Don't they as well?

I have a 20 amp dedicated line, Core Power 1800 PC for front end . I bought it for my amp/s too, but they sound better plugged direct to wall. I use both WireWorld PCs and a couple from Tekline Audio, which sound better, but are 2+ xs the price, although WW has more expensive PCs too

piaga, for some reason I do not see your post which starts out ...

 01-03-2019 2:42pm EST hello brotw Sorry for the late response, this thread has come to large and techincal. I find it hard to follow.Well, my Nord NC500 One UP is just burning, but even out of the cage it sounded better... View full response →

toetap

I don't think anyone here is suggesting that Nord, or most sub $4K class Ds compare to some of the super expensive class Ds, BUT

* we all don't have trust fund accounts

* it seems no matter the tech (Ill use racing engines) getting that extra 10% performance increase usually doubles... triples, and more the price

Having owned 4 different W4S + PS Audio, Emerald Physics and now the older Audio Alchemy DPA 1 stereo amp, it is by far the most natural sounding (MUCH better than my Parasound A23 A/B amp), and speaking personally, $2K MSRP isn't chump change, and neither is the used price < $1000 to many of us

I was going to upgrade to the AA monos, but this thread has me doubting any future value on the used market. In just 3 short years these $4k MSRP the pair can be purchased for < $2k and have stellar reviews from 2016

George (assuming the are the same George who reviewed the Hattor passive pre with a Nord) you should read your own review as you praised the combination

so what gives?

Considering an ICE amp? I had this problem with ucore

“One of the difficulties implementing the ICE module is its hungry demands for a powerful input signal. The 700 watt ICE module has low impedance (around 8KΩ) which, if not properly buffered, can cause plenty of poor sound from connected equipment. And what the designer uses to buffer it is critical. In our case, the Analog Cell handles not only this critical buffering task, but sets the synergy between the input and output. Another innovation employed in service of great performance can be found in the power supply design. Here, the Analog Cell received high quality DC through liberal use of regulation and power supply storage through use of capacitance multipliers and generous numbers of low ESR capacitors.”

Do you have a link?

Reading a class D review (6moons/Nord Ice?) the reviewer mentioned power cord sensitivity as an issue.

Several months ago I replaced a wireworld series 7 PC (MSRP $300) with a boutique $800 PC which sounded significantly richer

And just a week ago I went from toslink to a prototype coax (not at liberty to say until production). Last night, listening to Ray Charles Duets was amazing

Oh, my amp is Audio Alchemy DPA 1

AR might be in the mix, but I am pretty sure PS Audio opened the door decades ago.

Electronic Products magazine has a GaN article from www.ti.com