The Evolution of Modern Jazz

Inna, Rachel Brice got a wiggle that the worm can't learn.

Although modern jazz began with "Be Bop", I've seen almost no post's on that genre; therefore, I feel we should move to the next phase of this evolution, "Hard Bop". While those posting probably didn't think of their post in terms of the genre "Hard Bop", that was the genre they were posting in. We think in terms of the title and the artist; not the genre. When I give you an example of Hard Bop, you will be able to submit examples of your own.

My first example is "Somthin Else". This is the title tune of one of the most popular jazz albums ever. It features artists you are familiar with. Click on this link and enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlvrrVPUKw

My next example is "Moanin", by Art Blakey and The Jazz Messengers. Audiophile's I've met had this one in their collection even when jazz wasn't their main thing. The individuals in this group went on to form their own groups.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKXsnDvILmI

Although this one is not an example of "Hard Bop", it is one of my favorites. The very same musicians on this tune sometime play Hard Bop together, but not this time. Most "Goners" are quite familiar with all of the musicians on this tune. I give you "On Green Dolphin Street", by Miles Davis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrVnm66joQk&playnext=1&list=PL1476240CD1A95E38

Since we won't go into "World jazz" until Monday, now is a good time to debate on whatever has been posted, or post any genre of jazz you like.

Foster, you once mentioned you liked Bill Evans more as a sideman, so do I; but not always. This is one time you might make an exception.

Bill Evans, "Tomato Kiss"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ESLJebaWyU

This is a "music" forum. Now, thanks to "youtube", we can use music to illustrate what ever it is we are trying to say about music. For example: I think John Coltrane "Blue Trane" is one of the best "jams" from the Hard Bop genre, and to prove my point; I invite you to click on "Blue Trane" by John Coltrane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpZHUVjQydI

Grimmace, you made valid statements in regard to the origination of modern jazz; however, we've moved on to the next phase, which is "Hard Bop". There is much that can be debated in regard to the origination of jazz. The confusion arises when jazz and "modern jazz" are not seperated.

If you began a thread designed to discus the origination of jazz, I would certainly engage and participate.

man, this is so fantastic; Lee Morgan is my favorite on trumpet. "Dat Dere" piano player is too tough, and Blakey, Mr. "Thunderdrums" makes it all come alive. This is almost as good as being there.

"Night In Tunisia" by Lee Morgan is a version with Pepper Adams on baritone sax.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOIgcC0lPkU

This is "Here I Am" by Donald Byrd with Pepper Adams, "One bad jam".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBbph3Umo2A

Foster, the decade from roughly 59 to 69 was equivalent to a hydrogen "jazz" bomb explosion. There was so much "connoisseur" jazz created that I'm still making new discoveries.

Although we're into hard bop, there was another genre on a parallel time track, that is almost forgotten; but not by me. Since we have two genre's in the same time period, we'll have to cover both of those before we go to the next phase.

There is so much music in this period, that we're going to be here for awhile. Rather than even mention the other genre, I'll wait to see how everyone wants to proceed.

Qdrone, I don't know the answer to your question, but we can explore your post as a group when we get there. Since fusion came after "hard bop", that will be the next time phase; but we still have another genre to explore in this time frame.

Let me explain how I think this discussion should proceed. Now, we are in a time frame from late 50's to very early 70's. "Any" good jazz recorded within that time frame is ripe for discussion, including vocals.

Anita O'Day is one jazzy lady who I like, she has style. I have two selections I would like to share with you, one is to see her style, and the other is to hear my favorite song by Anita.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agp2on83hrA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6LTGDYzXNE

Every time I hear Grant Green, I almost break out in tears. He died of a heart attack in 79 because he went on the road against his doctors orders because he needed the money.

If his body of works that was done at Blue Note in the early 60's had been given exposure, he would not have had any financial problems.

Grant had so many works of art that it's difficult to choose one, but I did; "Idle Moments" by Grant Green.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbEwVrDmlxk&feature=related

We can't discuss the evolution without discussing the players who made it happen.

Qdrone, I can't find anything. Could you email me?

Albertporter, I liked that. Sonny Clark and Jackie Mac sound good together. Do you have "Sonny's Crib"? It's my best CD by Sonny, I think you will like it.

At no time in history have we had a jazz explosion like the decade 59 through 69. While "hard bop" was progressing, another genre was cooking; "West Coast jazz", and it was cool. I went to a movie with a sound track so gripping, that I became engrossed in the music, "Who cared what the movie was about". That was the nature of "west coast jazz"; the very best jazz was on movie sound tracks with long ago forgotten movies.

The sound track from the movie "I Want To Live" is a good example of west coast jazz. If anyone can recall the TV series Peter Gunn, that was also west coast jazz. Grimace might be able to help us on this subject.

My examples are from the sound track of the movie "I Want To Live"" and the Newport jazz festival.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tmp4vtuCWwY

Jazz on a summer day; Jimmy guiffre.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfLsEH4csQ4

Albertporter, I broke my own rule for this thread; "Why say it with words when you can say it with music". I give you "Speak Low" from "Sonny's Crib".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8PcFSMYUqg&feature=related

Foster, west coast jazz is taking me on a stroll down memory lane. Not only was west coast cool, but the people who liked it; were the coolest and "hipest" I ever met. Not the fake "wannabe", but cool to the bone; like they were born genetically "hip".

The records I have are worn out and can't be replaced. I'm hoping we get lucky and this thread attracts a west coast jazz aficionado. Here is Bud Shank "Well You Needn't".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKC6YrK1UKs&feature=related

Foster, I forgot to mention, we're still into hard bop. Since west coast and hard bop are in the same time frame, we'll pursue them on parallel tracks.

West coast jazz, WCJ from here on out; is rapidly vanishing. The old records in my collection are out of print. Since it wasn't a radical departure from mainstream jazz like "fusion" was, most did not recognize it as a separate genre. I've included the names of musicians who were the primary west coasters, while they weren't as well known as artist's in other genre, they were just as good.

Curtis Counce, Bob Cooper, Bob Perkins, Conti Condoli, Pete Jolly, Harold Land, Carl Perkins, Shelly Manne, Teddy Edwards, Hampton Hawes,Stan Levey, Monty Budwig,and Mel Lewis are a few great west coast boppers that recorded in the 50's and 60's.

Some WCJ was well represented by soundtracks like "The Man With The Golden Arm" and the TV series "Peter Gunn". This genre will soon be gone with the wind, and I intend to get my share before that happens. This is "The Man With the Golden Arm".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nlf1PEwnD7w

"Peter Gunn"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWscwxNBla4&feature=autoplay&list=PLA00348ADE1F4B401&index=45&playnext=2

Harold Land "Invitation"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhFC7LB5OXs&feature=related

Curtis Counce "Nica's Dream"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trjO7TWe6ME&feature=related

The music always sounds better when you can actually see it being made, and they showed us every aspect of the reproduction; outstanding!

Now that you know the names of the players, you can mine the WCJ genre on your own. These are my last recommendations in hard bop before we go to "fusion". Ike Quebec, "Heavy Soul" "The Cannonball Adderly Quintet in San Francisco" Charles Mingus, " Mingus AH-Um Charles Mingus" Art Blakey, "A Night in Birdland" "The Best of Horace Silver" "The Best of Lee Morgan" The sidemen on these CD's became leaders, These few CD's can take you a long way.

Tomorrow we'll begin "Fusion". Since there are many experts here, I hope for a lot more help in that genre. While I liked fusion initially, it got boring in a hurry. I guess that tells you why I'm not the best person to take us through fusion. Next we get into some of the most beautiful music in jazz. It's so beautiful, that I've had people tell me it's not jazz because they don't like jazz. The next phase of this wonderful music incorporates music from around the world, maybe that's why some say it isn't jazz; whatever it is I love it.

This is Ike Quebec, "Heavy Soul".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1cTgZDUsSc

Fusion is merging two separate elements into a union. "When you fuse jazz and bluegrass, you get crabgrass because bluegrass don't like jazz".

Herbie Hancock and Weather Report impressed me with their albums of "Sextant" by Herbie and "I Sing the Body Electric" by Weather Report. They seemed to connect with a part of my mind I never knew existed; "The misty mid region of Wier" sounds good. First, we have "Rain Dance", from "Sextant", by Herbie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RczWDQmKQtA

This is "The Unknown Soldier", from the album "I Sing the Body Electric", by Weather Report.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZNRS5Yzlj4

"Dara Factor One" by Weather Report, I hope you like it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW0YwUgtJc0&feature=related

Shadorne, me and George go way back; I have many fond memories associated with his music.

Neal Hefti, that's a name I've been hearing forever. I didn't know I was a Neal Hefti fan until now. All of those movie scores and TV theme songs makes just about everybody a "Neal Hefti fan"; that Batman theme was tough.

Duanegoosen, I can still remember the stylus settling into the groove of "On The Corner". I said "What tha!" It was so different from anything I expected from Miles, that I was in a state of shock. I took it back and demanded a refund.

(Miles in his own words)
"It was just a waste of time playing it for them; they wanted to hear my old music that I wasn't playing anymore. So they didn't like "On The Corner", but I didn't expect that they would; it wasn't made for them."

I still don't like it, I think it's too choppy; or maybe it's psychological.

Since most Goners aren't hip to WCJ, I thought I would provide a few more examples. Linda Lawson really captures the spirit of those times in El-A, enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkebaZbNEiU&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZKzTMr1M5E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ9tIk3tw28

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMcfTEGK-G8&feature=related

I'm hoping for many post's illustrating "fusion".

We "Miles Davis jazz fans", had an unwritten contract with Miles. We faithfully purchased every "jazz" album he came out with. "On The Corner" broke that contract, it was not "jazz" as we had come to expect from Miles. "Goners" will never be able to understand this, but Miles understood. Read (Miles in his own words)

That was beautiful. Musicians and their music evolve from "that time" to "this time"; I heard violin from "Visions of The Emerald Green Beyond" and bass from "My Spanish Heart", however I failed to associate Al Di Meola with anything that preceded this. Did you notice what I mentioned?

Foster, I could not have said it better in regard to Jean Luc Ponty, he is well represented in my collection.

Albert, I never heard that Miles before. I like it. Miles was one of the most outstanding musical genius to come along; even when he made music me and his old fans didn't like, he knew what he was doing.

No discussion of fusion would be complete without "Return to forever"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlxX-oXPZ48&feature=related

It's hard for me to pick out a favorite cut from this album but I tried, Chick Corea "Wind Danse"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XpqMiUTPsw

This is for Inna.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Da8sVBXowHw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0MEtBQb2yM

Fusion has proven to be much more interesting than I expected. I didn't realize how much good music is in this category.

Next we'll go to the last phase, which is "world jazz". Although this music began as an American art form, it now belongs to the world. Many of the best artists have Japanese names, Brazil is also deeply involved. No corner of the Globe is excluded from this music we call jazz. "Calcutta Cutie" is from india.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WvQ7BMws1M

If anyone wants to post more fusion before we go to "world jazz", that sounds good to me.

When jazz is blended with music from other countries, I call it "world jazz". What began as an American music art form, now belongs to the world.

I've discovered so many blends; unfortunately, I can't share them all with you, however, I will share two of them. The first is the East Indian Blend; John Handy, and Ali Akbar Khan play together like they have been doing it for ages. The language of music is universal, and these musicians carry on a conversation like old friends. "Karuna Supreme" takes me to a place I've never been before, and now that I'm there; I never want to leave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hK6_bOerWo

This Australian blend is too amazing for words. Here we have a blend of classical, Australian Aboriginal, and jazz. That is the most unique combination I've ever heard. The bass will certainly awaken your subwoofer. Didgeridoo classical jazz takes us to the outer limits of the imagination in this music we call jazz. I wonder what the founding fathers of jazz would think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4_4m9yUdc8



I hope to see and hear your examples of "World jazz"

Inna, use markup tags, post it again and "preview first" to make sure it works.

Out of all world jazz "Afro Brazilian" is the most impressive. These rhythms sound better than the one's straight out of Africa. The leading proponent of this music is "Dom Um Romao"; this is "shaking". I like the way the drums come "ripping" right off the block.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FovYWJwqSSo

Rio celebrates "ripping" rhythms and sensuality. "Focus on the drums"; I know it's not easy when you're looking at the carnival, but this is a "music forum"; enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8T77eC5rXs&feature=related

Inna I got it to work, my bad. Such a striking photograph, it certainly fits the music. Although Hossam Ramzy is new to me, I've always liked belly dance music, and the dancers too; hope you can add more.

Albertporter, I like every detail in that video, including the shoes. That music is destined for my collection. Normally I don't like accordion, but that guy blows me away.

Whether or not "World jazz" is jazz, I'll leave that for purists like Wynton Marsalis to debate. I know I'm enjoying all the music that's been submitted under this category, and the last phase of the music we call"jazz". I also feel that if Charley "Bird" Parker was alive, he would be into world music with us. It's for sure he wouldn't be playing "Be Bop".

I like this music much better than new music by new musicians that can be clearly classified as "jazz". Their music sounds like the same soup warmed over. Don't misunderstand me here, I still like "Bird", Coleman Hawkins, Ben Webster, and a long list of "oldtimers'; but when someone new comes along trying to do what they did, "It sounds like the same old soup warmed over".

In this last phase of jazz, do not trip over the word "Jazz". If it sounds good, it's good; as a matter of fact I'm submitting the sound track to the best movie ever made, "The Third Man". This is a haunting sound track that's been with me all of my life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OntXTE8Kyq0

Edorr, I have 5 CD's by Rabih Abou Khalil, and all the covers are as beautiful as the music. "The Astounding Eyes of Rita"is the only CD I have by Anuoar Brahem. I keep looking for a word or words to describe the photograph of "Rita", but can't quite get there. Maybe Albertporter can help, since he's a photographer.

Frogman, thanks for the heads up on the bandoneon. I thought "bandoneon" was a South American name for the accordion, now I know they are two entirely different instruments. I have Al Di Meola plays Piazolla, now I'll get "Piazolla".

Inna, "Heart of The Imagrants" displays the melancholy side of Al Di Meola; it's sad but very beautiful. The way he uses bandoneon and voices gives the music a hint of Astor Piazzola. He also incorporates many other diverse elements in this music; it is truly a world "sinfonia".

John McLaughlin and Paco De Lucia have formed a musical "mind meld", the two play as one. When they are joined by Al Di Meola, we have three playing as one.

This is a little Indian fusion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNaAN-7MZtI&playnext=1&list=PLC962ABCA05E06F8A

John is in fine form as usual. Check this Oriental violinist, he really gets down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyZXubnLT6g&feature=related

This is video that I could look at over and over; it reminds me of Nepal, and it has music to match.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8ri14rw32c&ob=av2e

That music and video was straight out of the land of the pharaoh's, Ramses II, King Tut, and Cleopatra. It was the most seductive music and video I've seen and heard. Combined, the music and video transported me back to the time when the pyramids were new.

We are on an outward bound musical journey to Andromeda and beyond.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8mMWh62XpU&feature=fvst

Here is something that's really different. This is Tuatara "Saturday Night Church"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KohpTKEKGmA

Rather than start a new "jazz" thread, I would like to keep this one going for those who have an interest in the music. "The Evolution of Modern Jazz" is so inclusive in regard to the various "genre's" of jazz that anyone who has an interest in the music will find their "groove".

In addition to posting comments, I also like the "Youtube" postings. This last phase of the evolution, "World jazz" is very interesting, but not enough music; therefore, I would like to add "Current jazz" to this last phase.

My first submission is "Lilly Was Here", by Candy Dufler.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvLfS_WzDTk&feature=fvwrel

Edorr, thanks for the heads-up. I didn't know any of that. All I know is that "Lilly Was Here" is one fantastic jam, and Candy Dulfer is beautiful.

"Karuna Supreme" is the best example of "World Jazz" in my collection. John Handy was born with an alto sax, playing jazz, while Ali Akbar Kahn was born playing classical Indian music on the sarod. I can not fathom a wider gulf between two musicians, and yet; these two play together like long lost friends.

They blend so well, that it's difficult to tell where classical Indian music stops and jazz begins. Ali Akbar Kahn sounds like jazz on the sarod, while John sounds like classical Indian on the alto. He gets into the Indian thing like he was born in Calcutta, and Ali Akbar Kahn gets into jazz like he was raised on the other side of 125th in New York. Although this is relatively long, it's so beautiful, that it seems to end too soon.

"Karuna Supreme"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hK6_bOerWo

Rachel distracted me. Now that you mention it, after looking and listening; the "Turkish jazz" is nice.

Ali Akbar Khan, often referred to as Khansahib, was a Hindustani classical musician of the Maihar gharana, known for his virtuosity in playing the sarod. He sometimes played with Ravi Shanker. I found the music, and the musicians to be "hypnotic".

Now I know exactly where you're coming from and I understand. He's polar opposite to John.

Since I listen to music on my "playlist" from the PC, half the time I don't know what or who is playing. This guitar "Indian music" was playing and I was really enjoying it, I thought it was something recent; when I checked, it was "Shakti".

It's for sure you have to be in a "pensive" mode or mood to enjoy "Karuna Supreme".

I'll submit something where "Khansahib" really gets down, and see if you still have the same opinion.

After going through what I have by "Kahnsahib", I didn't find anything much different, he's deep into the "Indian thing".

Since there is not enough interest in "World jazz" exclusively, I'm alternating my submissions with "current jazz". This is one by the 3rd force, It's titled "In The Full Moonlight".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeLaOa9m9kg

This one is guitar drums and didgeridoo, it's "killer" to my ears.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yu35VAn_p-M

Now we have "smoking drums" and flamenco guitar, it's boss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2SJf1J-LHA&NR=1