Subtlety ? do any American amps do it?


Not heard that many but it strikes me that everything from the colonies sounds a bit stark and bleached. Spent a year trying to come to terms with a Pass Labs which is vastly overated ( and I mean vastly), listened a lot
to Mark Levinson and thought Thank God I did not spend a fortune on that - clean, clear, hifi and so bereft of soul that it was like a visit to the Dentist !
I'm not that biased, it's taken Naim years to make something resembling music - PRAT ? until recently bunch of narrow minded PRATS.I know lots of Naim fans and their mindset belongs to the third reich !
UK companies like Meridian and Musical Fidelity have managed to do the bizz for at least 30 years that I've known/used and they still manage to make a noise that at least resembles real music. MF get tarred with a do it cheap brush but anyone who has heard their gear and says it's crap is probably a dealer who wants to sell you something at 3/4x the price.
The Brazilians do it a treat - Heard Audiopax 88s at the last Edinburgh show and if anyone there had ears, they should have packed up and went home - different league does not describe it.
Realise this is antagonistic but want some input.
Even the UK press seems blinkered to the crap - Pass, Krell
- whoah, nice hifi, shame there's nothing remotely musical involved, apart from the laughter as they take our hard earned money !

I have a Quicksilver phonostage - lovely and a great customer focused company, had a Lancelot Camelot, super and amazingly friendly & helpful people but go to the Big boys and it's just a money grabbing frenzy ?
I dreamed of a Pass Labs for years and ? my next amp will be coming from somewhere in Europe !

Si
simon74

Showing 13 responses by simon74

Hi Guys,
I had a few glasses before posting but it had the desired effect. I'm sure there are loads of fabulous american amps,
shame I don't get to hear very many.
I'm using an Audio Mirror pre and agree, for the money, it's marvelous (it's actually based on a G. Nardi design for Audionote).
Thinking of taking another plunge of the deep end and buying a Supratek unheard. My aspirations are way beyond my budget so it's worth risk taking to get good value for money.
Looking at room treatments as I'm moving into a smaller & very live room - like everything thing else about our hobby there are a lot of different schools of thought to consider.
Thanks for the input , I like to enjoy my gear, my music and a bit of levity in the forums now & again !
I have far to many good friends in the states to think your all listening to'crap'
I've also heard some fabulous gear that cost buttons - valves seems to be the common denominator - maybe I'm allergic to solid state ?

Si
Hmmn?
I got a lot of decent input from people who, I imagine read some of my other posts before deciding I was an idiot/troll.
Checking some of the personal comments, generally their posts (and systems) show - a slight ?????
My next post will be more mundane - customer service practices of shipping companies, cheers
Si
El G,
I suppose you'll have another rattle to chuck out of the pram?
The joy of having things with a 'puddle' under them, is if you are in any way handy, it becomes a labour of love to make it not have a puddle under it, then driving it to McDonalds ????????
I have UK gear, US gear, Japanese gear, Japanese cameras, German cameras, and guitars from all sorts of places.
I've no doubt ten years from now EVERYTHING will be sourced from China ! Lighten up.
Si
Hi there,
Bio, didn't think you were. You made an interesting observation which I was unaware of.
I was refering to some prior posts.
I think this thread has run it's course - have a new Supratek to play with so back to the music.
Si
Rocking now,
I was having a bit of a laugh.
In all seriousness, I find some of the major players (that I have heard)to be something of an anticlimax.
I've dealt with some hifi Gods who are arrogant beyond belief and some of their dealers who would make Satan on a bad day seem pleasant !
On the other hand people like BAT,Quicksilver, Camelot, Supratek, Kora etc who take the trouble to answer a query and be interested and helpful are always going to set my mind to trying their products.
I realise dealers have to make a living so I am not going to go through the motions of listening to their gear and wasting their time, before sourcing it elsewhere - I could but it's not very ethical ?
Hence I have to buy 'deaf' by reading reviews and the threads on here.
It doesn't always work but how else can I afford to try american stuff which costs more 'used' over here than it costs retail in the states.
This is a great site and the fact they vet & let me post this thread, shows they have no axe to grind.
Many more references to cars and I'll ask if I can post my photos of my cars engine with my system - a manky old Ford Escort but I can't recall many Buicks winning World Rally titles !(That said I'd rather have a Porche, Ferrari, Mitsubushi Evo, M3 etc, etc - when do we get Autogon ? )
And for future 'slags' I am decidedly not a Brit, thanks, call me any prefix before Scot, Scottish or Scotsman !
Cheers Si

George,
Yeah your right but it doesn't mean we have to like it.

Post a bit antagonistic inspired by the year long saga of trying to get the Pass Labs fit for purpose.
Came from their factory with a clean bill of health - one year, two engineers, new op amps and lots of my money later,
it still makes strange noises no other amp I've ever owned makes.
Lugging 100lbs of amp all over Scotland to try in other systems(with the same problem showing whenever said amp entered the equation), did not tie in with the blame laid on my mains or grounding loops.
I have ten turntables so suggestions that I couldn't recognise a grounding loop was adding insult to injury !
The X-250 was the biggest purchase I ever made and the biggest disappointment !
The Naim bit was ott but unless things are different over the pond - 'The Flat Earthers' (Naim/Linn) were/are never the most forgiving or open minded school of people, slating anything and everything not made by these companies, hence the dig.

Jjmali - post your system and give us the benefit of your wisdom
Jmc2 - Art Audio,Border Patrol, EAR - dry,polite??? Baahh!

By subtle I meant something that sounds like real music, not metronomic hifi. There seems to be something inherently different in the way the envelope of the notes are presented
with some amps - everything starts with the same attack and ends with the same delay. Thunders along giving the gist of the rhythm but fails entirely to show any counterpoints between the players or instruments - unsubtle, unrealistic and bland but usually expensive and impressive looking and certainly at hifi shows, played very Loud in a Home Theatre set up.

Given the photos of Harley's (cutting edge technology, right enough) how can't I post my Turbo?

Si
Hi Greg,
Had protracted contact with them over a period of 8 months but it seems impossible for them to accept that there could be a problem with one of their amps.
Ship it back & we'll fix was Nelsons ripost - yeah at my expense.
I won't bore you with the details but basically when you tell these people that your mains is well sorted and after 30 years you can tell a grounding loop from a problem amp, it becomes less friendly.
The fault was 'tuned' to a minimum but thats not inspiring in this level of gear.
I was told that the problem stemmed from very long earth tracks on the circuit board for the single ended inputs causing some kind of differntial voltage ?? between the channels.Balanced cables did not cure this.
Way too technical for me. The 'buzz' through the speakers is now reduced to a useable level but it's still there.
The design of this is seemingly different from the X-150 & THE x-350. ce la' vie.
Si
Hi Tubegroover,
I'm sure there are lots of brilliant american amps but chances of hearing them over here are pretty much nil.
Only one dealer in Scotland stocks high end US gear and you
can imagine the prices - straight dollar to pound equivalent.
Hoping soon to get over to visit friends I've made on Gon and have a good old listen.
The Syrah introduces a lot of what has been missing with the Pass so I may have been a bit harsh on it.
Message there, don't blame the messenger !
Looking at the price of some of the tubes for the Syrah,
I think I'll make do with the ones it came with !
Rgds Si
Hi Bio,
Still blown away by it - had to rewire to 240V - felt like the bomb disposal squad - poked the on switch with a stick and ran like f--
Fabulous looking, much larger than expected but my , what a sound. My system now sounds like it should for the money I have spent. Everything in oodles more but oh so natural.
Relaxed,hairaising - whatever the music is doing I can now hear it. There's a palpability, soldity - I don't know, albums I thought I knew are laid bare.
Strangely the line stage leaves me gobsmacked - I always knew my Nu-Vista cd was good but never to this extent.
The only slight gripe is the phono stage has a slightly speaker bound quality. May just be it spreads a bigger image
than my new'small' room can accomodate but I don't notice this with the linestage.
For the first time ever I can say I am enjoying cd's as much as vinyl.
I'd like to try my Quicksilver phono thru the Supratek but I don't want to go there - to many boxes/wires and some things must go to pay for the Syrah.
Must say it would give me pleasure even if I never switched it on - it really is the most beautiful piece of kit I've ever owned & Mick who makes them is great - a man of few words but he always gives you the one you need - Yes cut that wire - no for f--s sake don't cut that one!
Sorry if it's not anylitical but for the first time for a while, I'm just really enjoying everything, cd, vinyl or tuner - it's great !
Cheers Simon
Hi Bio,
Change a few valves in the Syrah. The rectifier valve in the psu was changed to a Mullard to great effect and a couple of valves in the phono stage were changed.
Also new to variable loading option for cartridges so that took a while.
Happy to report the phono now comapres with the linestage.
I'm spending 6 hours at a time just enjoying music.
All I can say the Syrah imo is all it is cracked up to be and more.
Changing to 240V was painless and took about 10 minutes once I plucked up the courage to go ahead and do it.
Cut two wires/solder together, heat shrink and tie out of the way - Bingo !
The only problem now is a hankering for the Cortese !!!!!!!
New cyberlink cables arriving tomorrow along with a stillpoints amp stand - like X-mas early.

Simon
Surprised this is still running !
My Audio Mirror is nice but came with teething troubles that, had I not known someone clever with valve amps would have cost me money. Lovely design (based on G Nardi design for Audio Note) but not very well executed.
Still very good value for money.
I instigated this cause I had a years worth of problems with a Pass direct from Pass - it was sorted by an engineer they recommended and I never got a bill, so do I assume they(Pass) paid the bill.
It's a lovely amp and I enjoy it but a years a long time to argue the toss with a company.
People say buy new from a dealer and your covered - problem is if I had to pay new prices for all my stuff it would be worth more than the house.
The Supratek has been a joy from day one, there are lots of amps I would love to try but I have to buy, ship, pay duty.
I have no doubt I would die and go to heaven listening to CJ,Wavelength, Manley etc, etc.
Must be a joy to live in a country where there are enough consumers to allow this amount of manufacturers to survive and prosper.
I love the fact that most american companies delight in providing information and talking about their products.
'Some' uk companies can't even answer a mail, the phone or lawyers letters - arrogant pricks.
I've no more to say, if not for my friends in the states, I'd still be trying to upgrade, it was a rash post brought on by a years frustration over my most expensive ever purchase.
I really didn't mean to antagonise fellow 'nutters', only prick the skin of manufacturers who treat their customers like idiots
Si