Soundstage...How to determine what's right?

I've found the 'Chesky Records Jazz Sampler and Audiophile Test Compact Disc Vol. 1' a valuable tool with regards to properly setting up my listening environment. It contains tests that will reveal imaging problems, and the depth (or lack of) sound stage in your system/room combination. Are you working with tubed or solid state gear? I won't entertain any arguments in here, but- solid state has been largely found lacking in depth of soundstage until a certain dollar point is achieved(big bucks).

The LEDR demo on the Chesky provides a series of pulses that begin by going UP to help you find ceiling reflections that might be alleviated with absorption. Then OVER which starts 2 feet beyond the left speaker and describes an arc over the center stage and beyond the right speaker, then LATERAL from past the right front of the right speaker and ends at the left rear of the left and vice versa. You can find a more in depth discussion of the test in the December 1989 issue of Stereophile. Another track has Dave Chesky describing where on the stage he has placed his microphones, and a variety of locations on this stage from which he is speaking and striking his tamborine, so you can determine whether your system is recreating the info and/or whether you can hear it. Very easy to understand. The disc is available direct from Chesky for about $16.00, and perhaps for less on Amazon. I have often wished I wasn't so familiar with live music(acoustic and amplified). I'd have saved megabucks over the last 30 years. Yes- The pure musicality of tubes is addictive. Unfortunately the best are always the NOS ones from the 40's through the 60's, and BOY are the prices going up!!

(http://www.stereophile.com/features/772/index.html) Just to make it a bit easier: here's the URL for that article in Stereophile. They do a much better job of explaining the LEDR test. That disc also contains a left-right imaging test that extends beyond the speakers which a great many systems can't reproduce.

Hi Scoly1- Check out this URL(http://www.balanced.com/products/cd/Vk-D5/index.html) for an idea as far as a tubed CD player. It's what I've been using for a few years now. My previous one was a California Audio Labs Alpha/Delta CD player/DAC set-up. Either are still available on the used market(sometimes on this site, sometimes eBay) for considerably less than what's considered SOTA, but will still deliver all the music your system can process. The CAL pieces are no longer supported by anyone unfortunately(the only drawback), though I did find a shop in NY that had replacement LASER transports. Both lend themselves to the adventure of tube-tasting. BAT has a newer VK-D5 iteration that is more costly and is restricted to the tube created by the company. Happy listening!!

One more thing: Be certain to read the reviews on the VK-D5. Especially the comments on soundstage reproduction! Enjoy!

There are a wide variety of mic technics in use by engineers that yield just as many variations in sound stage reproduction. The quality of the pressing or burning is also a factor. I bought a Columbia CD of 'Amused to Death' by Roger Waters based on the effects that were on the one my son has. The sound stage produced on our systems extended solidly from at least 90 degrees to the left or right of our listening positions and many feet back of the speakers. The disc that I bought had none of the sound stage or dynamics that his did(absolutely no depth/everything between the speakers). Same label, same title, same bar code. That much variation between otherwise identical discs(yes- we A/B'd them on both systems). I returned it!! By utilizing a test CD you are using an established "constant" or "standard" that has been measured and your system can be compared to/graded by/adjusted or tweeked according to. How can using any recording of an event that you did not personally attend give you ANY indication AT ALL if your system is faithfully reproducing the original venue? I'm assuming that faithful reproduction of the musical info on your source material is your goal. I tend to trust the experts when I choose a standard, hense my collection of Stereophile/Chesky/Sheffield Labs/etc. test CDs and pressings. Funny thing: how well my system performs with all of them, as well as the recordings I've been personally involved with. The only "minefield" is trying to find labels that are conscientious about their recording/manufacturing processes, and record the jazz and blues I enjoy. Oh- Try 'Dead Can Dance-Into the Labyrinth', recorded 4 track/A/D, in a huge(The Quivvy) church. Huge sound stage/natural reverb effects. Very strange music(new Zealand/Irish flavored).

That's exactly how the effect is generated! Carver did that back in the 80's with his "Sonic Hologram Generator" which was an interesting experiment, but otherwise an acoustic nightmare(distroyed any semblance of music). On the CD (Amused To Death) the effects are generated in the digital domain and quite interesting. On the start of one cut a horsedrawn wagon begins clinking and clattering to the left, and over your shoulder and ends it's journey seemingly yards beyond your right speaker. The first cut has a very low level dog barking to the three o'clock of my listening position, which makes it sound like the dog is outside my window in the yard. In 1981 I had a pair of LS3-5A's that I had built with KEF drivers, and all the same OEM British cross-over components as the authentic item, with a few of my own cabinet improvements. My system wasn't nearly as good as what I'm listening to now, but on one of my John Klemmer albums there was a cut with a very pronounced Fender Rhodes solo. It never failed to amuse me when my friends would open the closet door to the right rear of the couch they were seated in, looking for a hidden speaker(or the Rhodes). Don't ask me how that worked. It's not my story or theory. It's fact and personal experience. OH- by the way: Why would a test CD include an imaging test that expects your system to re-create sounds two feet beyond the outside of the speaker's position if it's not possible? Even the 'Max O Man' cut on one of my Fourplay CDs projects someone popping their fingers to the left of my listening position. No fancy phasing, audiophile label or hologram generation. Just a well engineered CD, well tuned system and listening environment. Try those CCa's in your BAT. If the rest of your system/room combination are up to it: you may just find some amazing stuff hidden in your music collection. Of course: if the rest of your system employs tubes: you may have to replace some of those as well. The driver and phase splitter tubes in my SLM-100s are both 6SN7's but I have to use a Sylvania 6SN7W(tall bottle) and a TungSol VT231(black round plate) in each amp to get the sound stage I'm describing(let's not discuss the cost of my cables). None of this has come cheaply, but- it's all very real and brings me that much closer to my ideal: the sounds I hear when I'm mixing the stuff live.

I believe you may be missing the entire point of my notes thus far. My goal is accurate reproduction of music within the recording venue. The music I am most familiar with is performed on a stage much larger than the 12' between my speakers(except for an occational 3-4 piece chamber ensemble). If that was all the sound stage my system could reproduce, I'd sell it and buy a transistor radio(and another Harley with what was left), then restrict myself to live performances. My room and system are tested, EQ'd, and the subs and mains time aligned by my TacT RCS 2.2X(via FFT) with the reproduction of the original recording venue in mind(not the sound of the music group playing in my listening room). That's the goal, and I'm happy to say that my system delivers as long as the info is on the disc/master tape/record. That's easy for me to verify to my satisfaction, as I do some of my own recordings. Life would be alot easier, and MUCH CHEAPER, had I been a guitar player instead of a sound tech. Then again: I guess 70's American Fender Strats and Genuine Les Pauls aren't all that cheap either, and I'm a picky feller!! Enjoy your sounds.

hey Scoly1- If you're still in here, check this out: (http://www.upscaleaudio.com/view_category.asp?cat=50) You may be able to pick one of these up used and upgrade it when the funds become available. It would give you a taste of what a tubed source can do for your listening. There are a number of upgrades available. The first thing I would do would be to find a matched pair of Siemens E188cc's to pop in there. That's if I didn't have the money for those wonderful 1960's Siemens CCa's I'm always raving about. Read the Stereophile review(if not all of them).