So how much do you think the placebo effect impacts our listening preferences?

@mikedangelo,

Perhaps it’s the 3% that are getting their knickers knotted over sound quality?

For most folks these so called night and day differences are entirely placebo.

There’s a reason why the AT50s and MDR7506 have been around for decades and decades.

When it comes to headphones (cables, amps, cd players etc) the sonic differences between them can indeed be shockingly small.

I’ve got around 7/8 pairs of well respected headphones but the ones I use the most are the Sennheiser PX100s (indoors) and the ultra budget JVC Flats (outdoors).

They not only sound virtually as good as their far more costly counterparts but are considerably more comfortable too.

If I want the best sound quality/comfort ratio I’ll use my Porta Pros.

Sadly I hardly ever bother with my Creative Aurvana or PSB models. Far too heavy and too uncomfortable, and too impractical. Even the Bose set I was given as a present have hardly been used.

I really ought to sell them on as they’ve hardly been used...

I want headphones that not only sound great but those I can also forget I’m wearing.

The problem isn’t that the placebo effect wears off (just like hypnotic suggestion eventually does if not constantly repeated and reinforced) it’s that the consumer/customer in their desperation might move onto the next placebo once it does.

My mother for example has been looking for the magic pill that will cure all of her ailments for over 50 years. She still seems to think her doctors are somehow conspiring to hide it from her.

Nowadays we get bombarded by adverts for all kinds of wonderful health restoration products, and some might feel, at least for a while, that they work.

It’s not unreasonable to question whether some audiophiles might be doing the same thing, is it?

Now I have to confess that since cutting down on my sugar/carb intake I feel a lot better physically (at least that’s what my lungs/legs tell me after a run) but I don’t believe this is a placebo effect because this feeling is growing stronger and not weaker in time.

Of course initially it was no joke going without sugar in my tea or cutting back on cake etc but it’s definitely something I’d suggest everyone to try regardless of their current blood sugar levels.

Besides that way you may enjoy the occasional dip into sugar all the more. Or even better, you may even find yourself going off sugar for good.

And that can only be a good thing, can’t it?

@philbarone,

"Some people just feel safer paying more."

Particularly it would seem musicians. Didn’t Joshua Bell pay some astronomical sum of money for his Stradivarius, yet other violins are often preferred in blind listening tests?

To be fair to Bell his Strad is likely to be a great investment and if it makes him feel better.. why not just as long as neither he or we insist it sounds better?

I’ve long given up suggesting to my sister and daughter that more expensive doesn’t always mean better, but their argument is they don’t have the time or the inclination to do any research. So they tend to go on price, as is suggested more or less everywhere you look these days.


As you say,

"It’s funny though, I used to do blindfold tests in an effort to enlighten someone to certain things and when proven wrong they’d go into denial mode and insist they were right even after I had just disproved them wrong."

That’s people for you, and don’t the marketers know it.

Apple seem to be the masters of this image projection. I know quite a few people who will immediately upgrade to the new iPhone 13 in a few months without thinking.

I already know it would be a waste of time suggesting to them that my Xiaomi (OLED, 2 speakers, 5000 mAh battery etc) at a quarter of the price might be a better buy.


@cleeds,

One of my colleagues has been telling me for years that her husband Eric is so scared of needles he’s even prepared to have fillings without anaesthetic!

The best I ever managed was to have a deep clean and, despite the blood and pain, the proximity of the attractive dentist plus some some self induced placebo got me through.

I definitely would not try it with any drilling involved but I can believe others may be able to. The words 'root canal' still fill me with fear.

Of course it’s well known that under extreme duress people have been known to perform feats far outside their normal capabilities.

The power of placebo should not be casually dismissed. Even politicians understand it and use it accordingly.

Let’s face it, it’s everywhere and so familiar that eliminating its effect is far from easy.

Did someone happen to mention blind listening tests? Or are we all too scared of risking invoking cognitive dissonance?

Red pill or blue pill?
Which one do you prefer?
Just how much truth can you handle right now?

Tough questions in tough times.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_pill_and_blue_pill

@asctim,
"From what I’ve heard about pain killing placebos is that they don’t actually work when measuring pain objectively - which is usually done with a range of motion test. A person on a placebo will say they feel better and the pain is less bothersome, but when they are asked to lift their arm up, as in the case of shoulder pain, they can’t actually lift it any higher. With a real pain killer they can - although maybe they shouldn’t!"


Good point.

The placebo effect seems to have no objective foundation on reality and appears be almost entirely generated within the mind of the subject.

That’s why there are regulations that all stage hypnotists are required to adhere to.
The world of the subconscious mind still remains largely unexplored and mysterious over a 100 years after Freud drew our attention to it.

However you can bet your bottom dollar that all kinds of folk, all the way from government research and law enforcement agencies to vast international marketing and advertising departments are all deeply interested in its workings.

Oh what big eyes you have grandma!
The better to help you spend your money my dear!

@mahgister,
"Headphones and speakers present sounds with different results for sure..."


Finally something we can all agree on, I hope.
For the past few years I’ve been trying to find a neutral pair of headphones exclusively for monitoring purposes and comparing various masterings.

After reading around various sites (Head-Fi, Ken Rockwell etc) I eventually narrowed it down to around 5/6 candidates including the Sennheiser HD600s, Audio-Technica ATH50Xs, Beyer Dynamic DT880s, or the Sony MDR 7506s.

Rather surprisingly, after a fair bit of reading, it became clear that none of these tried and tested designs had a ruler flat frequency response.

In the end I decided upon the Sony’s as they seemed to be the closest to truly flat. Their minor aberration was claimed to be a slightly elevated mid treble response which is said to be of great help in detecting any potential issues in the all important presence band, I think.

Perhaps there is a good reason after all for why they have remained a largely unchanged industry favourite for quite a few decades now.

However, the surprises didn’t end there. I later read on Sound on Sound website that although most mastering engineers do use headphones for mixing or mastering, in practice they still prefer to use loudspeakers. I can’t remember the reason given, but I think it was claimed that loudspeakers gave a more predictable result.

So, given the differences between headphones and even monitoring loudspeakers, it’s hardly a surprise that audio’s notorious circle of confusion as described by Toole, Olive etc continues to this day, is it?

Without any commonly recognised worldwide industry references, it also looks like it might remain with us for some time yet.

Yes, the truth might well be out there, but finding it seems to be quite another matter.
https://www.soundonsound.com/mastering
https://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/10/audios-circle-of-confusion.html?m=1

@mastering92,

"One of the most important things I've learned in life is...You can take a horse to water, but you can't make him drink it. People will do what they want. You can't stop them - even if/when you provide the most logical solutions."


My experiences too.

I guess the real trick is to get them to believe that whatever you're promoting is actually what THEY really want to do!

In fact most of the trillions of global advertising revenue dollars spent seem to be attempting to do exactly that.

Yet it often remains a difficult task as anyone who's ever tried their hand at teaching might tell you.

Thanks for the tip about the Sony MDR M1ST.

It looks like Sony have put some real effort into its design, so they might be ones to look out for if you want a pair of headphones that will let you hear what your recordings actually sound like.

The reason the  Sony MDR 7506s have been around virtually unchanged for decades because thousands of industry users have come to trust it.

Even multi-million dollar film soundtracks are checked for accuracy with them.

And then someone goes and adds a ton of compression....and makes it almost unlistenable.

Ah well, such is life!