Shall I add a preamp to my setup?

Nope... I meant the VK5i.... NOT 51SE.

the 51SE is going to be very similar to the sound you presently have, albeit a bit richer. A friend of mine has one and he loves it, though he also has a 5i, and they are worlds apart sonically. The 5i having the more classic sound than that of the 51 or 51SE (both of which are preferable to the 50).

I've posted lots of threads on the vk5 i asking about it's sound, tubes for it, etc. check them out. Also there's got to be tons of posts on the 51SE too, as it's a very popular item.... both are strictly balanced topologies, and use xlr connections expressly... although the 51 series does have some RCA on it I believe. I used adapters on mine with fine effect.

Tehn there's that age old question of age... The VK 5i's run stopped back around 2000 or so. So even the last one BAT made is going to be over 6 or 8 years old.... but the build quality on them is superb. BAT says time and again they should last 20 years... and they're all self biasing, and for some, that's a big plus. With your budget, maybe the 51 is a better choice... if you go with BAT. Also their support is excellent, even with preowned gear.

I aimed all my comments on your sonic preffs. A Thor TA 1000 would definitely be a step in the right direction too, or even it's later sibling the MK II, (what I own), but didn't want to mention it as the only support for them since Mr. Marks flew the coop on his following so abruptly, will be via some local or well respected tech.

I mention this just to be quite frank on it all... the build of the Thors is top flight across the board. I've had not one issue with mine whatsoever aside from picking out which tubes to run in it. I've also seen some TA 1000 & MK II, lately for very good prices too. The only remote control feature is volume control however... and the balance control is defeated normally, and was offered as an option, along with HT pass through. 4 inputs. 1 line out. 1 active outs... and all RCA. 4 tubes. 2 12AT's, and 2 12AX's. Self biasing. Outboard power supply... extremely well damped and arguably the most unique physical esthetic of any make audio gear.

The MK II is the quicker of the models. Dynamic, fluid, harmonically natural and full. Great bass. super imaging. Big SS... wide and deep.

The MK IIs serial numbers began at 1000 & up. Previous to that were just the TA 1000. The TA 1000 is what I heard in person and also what made me want to get into an all tube array. It was by far the best sound I'd heard in nearly 30 years and that’s just my take. It is like a BAT VK5i on steroids. Lots of steroids.

The older CJ's, eg., 10, 9... are reputed to have even a more liquid midrange than the VK5i.

Interesting question.

In my exp. I wound up using a digital front end to drive all else with eventually, though I did not even think of that as a path to sonic entrapment, initially. however the DAC I can use as a preamp is not an all the time deal for me, as my tube preamp sounds just to good to me to leave it out for long.... different combinations of different items in the chain for me seems to provide me the variety I require now and then.

The magic I suspect you want to infuse into your system likely will require a tube preamp. other's will say differently perhaps, but the best way I've found to add that extra bit of intrigue to a fine system is by adding tubes.... somewhere. In fact I feel the preamp is as necessary as a very good front end... and again, that's just my two cents worth. it sure took me long enough to prove it to myself as well.

Cabling combinations also afford that which you seek, but the faster way due to all the cabling that is out there, is a nice to very, very nice preamp.

Good luck.

Grandetech

Tube pre with pass through, huh?

That shouldn’t be too difficult a thing to come by these days as many makers are putting that into their designs for the HT systems everyone is doing now.

Personally, I feel the two, stereo and HT should remain separate things for consistency’s sake… I’ve been unable to make a pair of tube mono blocks sound like solid state nor do I care too… then with some pass through preamps, they need to be on, and there’s that added pair of interconnects too. In any case, it should be a simple task to find one I suspect.

I have a Thor preamp… they ain’t being made now. The designer took a powder on us… but they are a stellar item sonically speaking. Some of them were made with pass throughs for HT.

Mark Mickelson had one for a time too…. Then went to a VTL 7.5. In his review of the VTL 7.5 he compared it to the Thor saying it was no better sonically but offered more versatility. I would think the VTL 6.5, would offer a great deal of the 7.5s performance for far less… but that’s sheer speculation.

I would also think the aspect to look for in a tube preamp is it’s inclination to the musicality aspect, over the speed and resolution facet… which is what I suspect you seek. I wasn’t terrigbly impressed by the new CJ preamps I heard. They sounded far more akin to solid state than to tube designs. I hear some of the older CJ pres were far more about the warmth and midrange though.

I’m really at a loss to add much here for you to investigate in this regard. I will say, having owned a BAT VK 5i, that either it or the VK5i SE should certainly do what you want and are well within your price range with lots left over… if you don’t mind buying older gear.

Perhaps VAC should also be on your short list, and maybe even Quadd… with $6K in hand for a preamp I’d still look at the VTL stuff, then VAC… and probably ART Audio & ARC… but that’s just me.

Buying anything used isn't entirely dangerous regardless the the item. It does have it's ups & downs though. Using some prudent judgement, and doing some howmework/research on the seller and the intended item is a must however.

I bought what I thought was a 3 year old BAT VK 5i from a seller who I believe is no longer a member here. it turned out it was closer to ten years old in fact. The misrepresentation of it's age was of course, an issue. Once new tubes were installed in it though, I was very pleased with it's performance overall and held onto it for a couple of years until the upgrade bug bit me... and then I bought my Thor and sold the BAT.

Tubes in general last a pretty long time. Some say thousands of hours! 3000 and up isn't unheard of, some tubes life expectancy go upwards of 10,000, 'New' or NOS of course.

Used tubes can do pretty well too. it's all about what you want to do and can afford I guess. Getting some used tubes is an easy and cheaper way to find out what suits you too. here, again, the seller's reputation is most important. There are several here and off Audiogone which are most competent and trustworthy.

Age of the component is a factor too, though if the maker is still in business it is less an issue than if no original support is available, natuarlly.

My own preffs tell me to not buy vintage & antique gear, but some swear by it. Again, this is a matter more of preffs than actual betterment and remains quite subjective, IMO. I've lost the ability to properly serivice electronics so for myself, support is key.

I also limit myself to buying electronics that are but shortly used, if at all possible... 2-3yrs. max., and less if possible. The build quality of anything is gonna reflect in it's longevity and performance too. Again, by the time I sold my BAT preamp it was over ten years old and played flawlessly and sounded great!

Keeping in mind your situation, preffs, experience and so forth, it may be best to buy something inexpensive right off to see what is what in the tube world. Something with some popularity too, so reselling it if not to your liking won't be a big deal. Any of those companies I've listed above are worth investigating and you'll not go far wrong... if at all.

Sticking with a preamp whose tube array is current or plentiful is also a good idea. Like the 12AT, 12AX, 12AU, 6DJ8, 6922, 7308, 6sn7, etc. and they all have their own sonic signatures... which is good for you can buy & try out the same 6922 from any number of makers and customize the sound to your preffs.

Lastly more tubes inside the unit doesn't mean better all the time... it does mean more money to outfit it all the time though... but that'll only happen due to whims or every 4 or 5 years, depending on how much you play the thing. 4hr. per day = <1500 hours per year.

With a $6K budget in hand and desiring 'new', I'd look at the middle of a makers line up... if used, higher up.

However, do be mindful of the 'point of diminishing returns'. you may well be in any case, yet it does apply across the board usually and that means tube gear too.

Seeking to remedy or add to, your current situation though, IMO I would look lower maybe... and preowned as well... just for a look see, right?

I keep pointing to VTL and will again... though I've not owned one, their entry level unit (2.1?) is well regarded and reviewed and is a decent way to begin I think. Also the BAT VK5i & VK 5i SE & CJ 10, Quicksilver, and there are more. Naturally, if mo dough is present, scoot on up the lines of whomever you seem to prefer... eg., ARC.

A bit of a learning curve is in order with tube gear, and be mindful of that too. Vintage tubes, and AES, along with some private vendors here on the 'gone are good resources for tubes too... and top dollar isn't always needed to have fine results when acquiring tubes to play with.

Check out the classic tube preamps by doing a search here and online for more insights.

RE pre
Congratulations.

I've only heard some talk of AP cables from those I trust... it wasn't impressive talk.

Synergistic Research offers a lot of bang for the $$$, as well as does Audience. I've 3 sets of SR speaker cables. All different itterations, in 3 different systems and couldn't be happier.

Maybe, if you like what your main ic is doing for you, that same thing in a spkr cable will work too. Just a thought.

You've got Theils, right?

if their sensitivity is down around 87 or less I'd say go with a more resolving wire. The Sig 10 x2 active cables I own. They are about right down the middle... neutral... the Res Ref are next up the old ladder, and the accelerators or Vortex seem to be the replacements. The Accelerator is a more edgy wire as an IC... I suspect the same for the spkr cable. Call SR and ask them which might suit you best...

Overall the SR wwires are fun. Colorfully resolving and extended. The active ones are for sure the way to go... sorry. Non active are ok... but with them plugged in, it's way, way better.

Sig 10's and Res Ref x2's are discontinued so they should be less $$$.

Give SR a call.

...and again, the Cable Co. rents out 10ft spkr cables.

I particularly like the Synergistic Resolution Ref x2 active wires. Up from there the Acoustic Ref x2 active are more refined yet lack the impactful extension of the RR's. however this is by degrees only and the AR yeilds a more cohesive SS with better layering than the RR X2.

One thing to bare in mind here, is that 'warmth' in ALL areas (tubes, cabling, componnets) can lend itself to a muddy situation perhaps, if some care isn't taken along the way.

Once the 05 is in house, try some RCA or Simens tubes in it first. That may be all you need... and/or a nice pc on it. Maybe a AZ Sunami, or Mongoose (cardas Golden ref facsimile). Both of those moves will cost far less than the cables you want to add and might save ya some duckets.

Those tubes should help a lot. they possess different attributes and should offset each other well. More ease would be gained using all RCA.... just something to think about.