Recommendation for an audiophile speaker cord that is not "bright"?


A friend has loaned me the Nordost Valhalla I and II as well as Nordost Frey 2 cables. They are wonderful speaker cables but do emphasize the "brightness" of my system including my Wilson audio Sahsa 2 speakers.

Any suggestions? Would used Transparent cables provide a richer bottom end? What about Audience Reference?

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. - Thank you - Gerry
128x128ruraltraumasurgeon

Showing 14 responses by unfairlane


"There is complex interaction among amp/speakers/speaker cable. "

Nothing complex about this, it is all about opening up so the amp can breathe freely. And there is only one way to do it right, hook up some thick solid core copper conductors..
  How much is enough? No power-conductor on the secondary site should be less than 9awg on smaller systems, 7awg on a fullrange system. Bi- and tri-wiring opens up a good system quite a bit.

OldHvyMec, you`re on the right track with your thinking. 

  Some moore, but the years means wery little if you`ve just followed the crowd. 

audiozenology
114 posts
12-21-2019 12:19am
And your reasoning for 7awg? ... any idea the resistance of a voice coil? How about the variation from one speaker to another? Does length of the run come into play at all?

This is hand waving with little to no justification leading others astray.
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Years of research. Resistance of a voice coil? The voicecoil is not a part of this, it is the reciever. Power doesn`t run back to the amp as some thinks, it is "burned off" in the voicecoils. 

Strange this, while running fat pc`s audiophiles finds it hard to understand that all wiring on the secondary low current site must be quite a bit thicker than their pc`s. 

On one side I know that most of you are to far out in the hifi-jungle to ever understand what you are into, but incase someone should be humble enough to try out my advices I`ll give them here for a while, some moore weeks mybe before I`ll give you up.
Have you ever wondered why components like this is avaiable? Do you have any experience with filtercomponents on this level? What kind of wiring would you use to connect it?  

https://www.banzaimusic.com/Mundorf-MCoil-N390-12mH.html

audiozenology
134 posts
12-22-2019 9:24am
So pretty much you are ignoring that voice coil resistance and impedance is part of the circuit ....right, gotcha. So basically that 7awg number is made up.
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Think again. The voicecoil is not a part of any circuit, it is the powerconsumer at the end of the circuit. 



ruraltraumasurgeon OP14 posts
12-22-2019 3:24pm
Quite an interesting discussion. A few things on my end:

1. My current speaker cables are labeled "Transparent high performance 10-2 10 AWG (upgradeable)."
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You will not believe this until you hear it, but even if those cables are a quite heavy gauge they are still unable to let the amp breath freely. Several thin conductors will perform like thin conductors even if they represent a low R. 
**Unlike the other participants here I`m speaking out of years of experience and not what I "think" or feel.
This simple speakercable-trick is the biggest uppgrade anyone can do to a good system, even if solid core pc`s represent a gamechanger too.

 Oh I know, but as said I disagree in this way of seeing it based on my experienses & knowledge. Even if the voicecoil is in the circuit seen as a shematic layout. You are right in this btw, circuitry is not my field, I`ve working how to do the ultimate dynamic speakers

Audio has been misdesigned since back in the 60`s when the transistors appeared. Cheap watts made it possible to ignore physics, speakers has been done wrong and so has amps while speakercables are totally misundestood. 



Yes it is part of the circuit. WOW what do you think it is a part of?
It actually completes the circuit. What's up with you? If you can't read a schematic, that is a pretty serious handy cap. You had 3 stars going, you lost TWO, go set in the corner and listen for a while. 
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You do not see my point? Off course I know that pr schematic it is counted in or seen as a part as the circuit. My point though is that this is misleading. Leading us to argue like "what`s the point of using heavier speakercables when the voicecoil is made of the thinnest 30awg thread.." 

Most of us has looked into a few power amps and mybe noticed how the capacitor bank are connected, either through thick wiring or in bigger amps through massive copper rails. And we know why this is neccesary, there is a large flow of electricity here and we wants it to breath freely. 
Breath into what? Your speakers voicecoils. 

Example:

https://macrofab.com/blog/super-simple-power-supply-ssps-design-part-3/
"  I think at this POINT IN TIME. With evidence we have gathered, the brightness of the cable was (by design) constructed that way. SO the SIZE is not in question but the design is. A different copper design worked but with "less resolution" Is that a fair assumption?"
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There are basicly two factors that makes a cable sound bright or thin;1: they are(!) thin (=reduces low-end oomph, amp can`t breath) and 2: crossoverdistortion.

The only way to get a rich, open, clean and dynamic sound is to run thick solid core conductors. From the fusebox to the voicecoils if you can, but the speakerwires are the most critical


audiozenology
; you have never tryed out this. If you had you would know that it is wrong. 

" The change in resistance of the cable will be minimal from the ones you have described so that punch is not from improved current flow which will be minimal to 0."
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Try something you actually understand 
First impressions-
1. Much more punch to the lower mid-range bass frequencies (not the very lowest frequencies);
2. Less searing high frequencies;
3. More "musical" (whatever that means) but "darker" (whatever that means) - loss of some midrange resolution compared with the expensive Nordost speaker cables, but at least I can tolerate the sound of an electric guitar.
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1: moore punch comes from lower resistanse, better flow
2: indicates lower internal crossover distortion+see over
3: Better harmonics due to lower distortion, cleaner "signal". Mid-resolution is not lower, just less edgy or distorted. 
 Tell me what the resistance change will be and how that relates to the ops speaker impedance in the mids to upper base.
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Interesting case this. Based on calculations a.k.a. theory nothing changes, stranded wires are claimed to be just as good as any singlecore.. But do a test and you might* hear what in audioterms is called a huge difference. 

One obvious reason is the ammount of intereference in stranded wires, but there will still be a difference even if all conductors were isolated & the interference is eliminated. I do not have all the answers here, just the knowledge after messing with this fome decades.

* depending on the test and your skills
You might have learned something here if you weren`t that arrogant. There is no way around this exept for trying & observing.