Ray Charles - "Rap is not music"

@davedead It is what it is. And as a Deadhead myself, I can call out generational blindness when I see it. 

@rpppr Not particularly. As much as I loved the Dead, I'm not beholden to what Jerry feels about a genre he plainly doesn't understand. Musicians as gifted as he have said the exact opposite. 

@davedead +1

@audiovideonirvana no problem. and no chance of me acting adolescent at all anytime I can weave a "That's what she said" into a conversation...

The actual quote is: "“You have to remember I’m a musician,” said the singer-keyboardist who back in the ‘50s did as much as anyone to pry open the body of American pop and inject it with soul. “So rap doesn’t do anything for me; I can’t learn anything from it. Rap is like reciting poetry--I could do that when I was 7. All you have to do is match (the words) with the rhythm. That’s nothing. That’s [expletive]." 

Who gives a crap what Ray Charles thinks or says? He was one musician who's prime was 25 years before the advent of rap. And he was an old fart when he gave that interview. You go ahead and shake your fist at the changing world. 

And no, you couldn't "recite poetry" when you were 7. You could say the words but you need a lot of experience to know how to really recite a poem.

And anapestic beats are in everything including Shel Silverstein, Shakespeare, and KRS-1. I'll take those guys over an obscure 20th century holistic physician. 

@tomcy6 Nah. I prefer to keep listening and appreciating lots of different types of music, including rap and Ray Charles (on occasion).

@pedroeb Okay, desperately-trying-to-stay-relevant cultural gatekeeper.

@emrofsemanon No, Quincy doesn’t hafta know. He’s one artist who never even dabbled in the art form he criticized, unlike Quincy Jones.

Finally, @jond Good call. Rap seems to be this group’s favorite genre to trash, though doing so usually reveals a level of being out-of-touch with a zeitgeist that's passed many by

@audiovideonirvana Wow. That really added to the sophistication level of the conversation. Sorry to be snarky, but adolescent quips like that don't strengthen your argument much 

@shutupuface Yes, rap does fit those criteria. It’s not just a voice and a background rhythm, as much as people might want to reduce it as such. It's like saying all of Dvorak is atonal, no-tune self indulgence or all of Paul Winter is cheesy wanna-be world music. 

@davedead Another grumpy old man railing against an art form he doesn’t understand. It’s also slightly hypocritical as many critics decried the Dead as aimless amateur noodling.

"But I do associate its rise in popularity with a certain decline in civility, engagement in intelligent discourse, obsession with celebrity, and worship of materialism.  So there’s that.'

Sounds like what was said about 80's hair metal or 70's glam rock, etc...

@ab2ab I quote from you: " and based on its impact among a certain segment of society, rap is a particularly focused medium for social degeneracy."

Are you for real? I mean, grow a pair and just say "Black people are degenerate" already and stop hiding behind the clumsy euphemistic labels. Stop being a cliche cowardly bigot.

Plus, you’ve been a member here for almost 8 years and have contributed a grand total of 19 times- most of them snarky, dimwitted whinging.

@parnelligq You’re not much better. besides your ignorant overgeneralization, you’ve contributed a grand total of 17 responses since you joined 3 years ago. But apparently a chance to cluelessly generalize really inspires you.

@charles7 really? Is this based on careful social study or on what you want to believe? Or maybe on your own experience? I mean, I could say the same thing about Boomer rock.

@davedead Yes, Jerry was an iconic and inspiring soul (though I always felt Bobby could convey raw emotion better), but I wouldn't assume that what he says is the be all end all of musical observation. He was a flawed person like all of us. 

@shutupuface Nah, I don’t have a problem with differing opinions at all, as long as they’re actually based on intelligent thought rather than generalized dismissals of a music form that doesn’t conform to a predisposed definition. I throw out the "race card" - as you predictably put - because that’s what it is. Look at the thread about country music. How many references to a specific culture or group can you find there? None. Shocker.

"With that being said, I don’t see that it takes alot of "musicianship" or "vocal range" to be a "rap singer". Only the ability to rhyme (not necessarily poetically), and keep a beat. The fact that women are more than referred to in degrading terms ( " ho" *itches") does little to endear my ears to that ilk."

• Try to rap like Chuck D or Dre or Lil Uzi. See if you have to breath control, rhythmic mastery, and ability to control your intonation and elocution to the extent they can.
• Much music made by men degrades or objectifies women, including the Boomer rock you grew up with.
• Your musical resume doesn’t exactly pad your point much.

@ab2ab Thank you for a thought-out rebuttal. I would have posted my original reply whether I would have known your color or not. I mean, racism knows no color boundaries. And yes, I would love to talk with you about drill (which, like trap, is a rap genre I simply don’t find pleasing to listen to. It’s that constant hi-hat which grates on me), its Brooklyn and Chicago bases, and the complex cultural-musical-sonic interplay that gave rise to the genre.

However, as a middle-aged suburban white male, I’m not going to pretend to "understand" where those artists are coming from - the "real culture" as you say. However, I will try to appreciate what they do, whether its King Keef or Lil Durk, rather than post sophomoric crap that permeates this thread.

Truthfully, I prefer artists like Autumn! and other southern rappers more than a Chicago sound.

FWIW, Ice-T recently castigated contemporary rappers as "weak" and "soft". I mean, this is ICE-T saying this! But I still disagree with him. It seems another example of an older guy railing against a new way of doing things, another example of @musicfan2349 's cool thread about finding it harder to like new music the older you get. 

Agreed, tho I prefer

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muse_Sick-n-Hour_Mess_Age

Yet another overgeneralized and stuck in the past response. Made even more interesting by the fact that Rihanna is not even American.

Funny, I read all of them, too. And you're the one who first opined/complained. Seriously, maybe read a little more before you spout off half-baked "alota yomama" cringe.   

@viridian zing!!

@stager Way to miss the point. You mention a bunch of Black American artists adn then lump Rihanna in with them as if she has anything in common. 

Whatever, go back to your "good ole days" shangi-la of existence when EVERYTHING was better. 

I posted the quote on the first page of this thread. 

And in reading back through the responses, the predictability of the vague, uninformed, and biased cultural gatekeeping is in keeping with every other thread about the genre. Rarely do any of the critics have any knowledge of contemporary rap or of the creation and production skills needed. They couldn't tell you (nor care) how Snoop differs from Lil Durk, or how Janelle Monae and Pharoahe Monch advance afro-futurism via hip-hop. 

Usually the ones with the strongest critical opinions are those who know the least about what they criticize. 

@northman I see what you mean. Charles simply said that rap doesn't do anything for him, not that it wasn't music. 

You've got issues, buddy 

@stager     See ya. The fact that you referred to Ebonics - a term that hasn’t been used in 20 years - further shows how out of touch you are. Btw, I believe "nitwit" is a more ad hominem attack than anything I said. I also think it’s not used by anyone except the elf in Rudolph. Anyhow, enjoy being an insecure little bigot, but try to stay in your narrow lane if you can.

@parnelligq I think you're missing the point. My feelings were never hurt. This has nothing to do with me and more about presumptions, biases, and labelling of a musical genre most respondents frankly know little about. 

I would have done the same for any genre, really, even modern country - as a musician I know how hard that is to play and to play well even if the musical integrity is dubious. 

And no, you didn't engage in any personal attacks; however, making obviously unfounded and unknowledgeable statements like, "RAP is a way for people with no ability to sing to get into the music business. It's just alota yamma" carries with it an entire carousel of social baggage and judgment. 

You may have an opinion, but based on your observation above, your opinion has no weight to it. 

However, I can kind of see where he's coming from. Yes, there are only 12 notes in the scale, but how we envision those 12 notes and what we find to be pleasing to the ear and acceptable as a paradigm it's completely based on our Western upbringing. The same can be said for the pentatonic scale if you look into Asian music.

@rockysantoro you mean like all the hard rock lyrics that celebrate drugs, misogyny, and hedonism? I assume you don't listen to them either. Dude, stay out of the conversation until you know the subject.