Rap to me is poetry to rhythms with little if any harmony, so IMO, I agree with Ray, but does it matter what category it's in?
Miles and miles of ignorance here.
I’ll happily let the Masters of Music here deign to provide us ignoramuses with the Definition Of Music.
The actual quote is: "“You have to remember I’m a musician,” said the singer-keyboardist who back in the ‘50s did as much as anyone to pry open the body of American pop and inject it with soul. “So rap doesn’t do anything for me; I can’t learn anything from it. Rap is like reciting poetry--I could do that when I was 7. All you have to do is match (the words) with the rhythm. That’s nothing. That’s [expletive]."
Who gives a crap what Ray Charles thinks or says? He was one musician who's prime was 25 years before the advent of rap. And he was an old fart when he gave that interview. You go ahead and shake your fist at the changing world.
And no, you couldn't "recite poetry" when you were 7. You could say the words but you need a lot of experience to know how to really recite a poem.
@simao - Your rant against Ray Charles makes me think you've been listening to too much rap. Try something else for a while and your mood should improve.
It's cool to see that you're passionate about music, and everyone has their own opinion on what they consider to be music. Ray Charles was a legendary musician and his opinion on rap is totally valid. However, I do think it's important to recognize that music is subjective and means different things to different people. Rap has become a hugely popular genre over the years and has had a major impact on music and culture. So while it might not be Ray Charles' cup of tea, there are plenty of people who love it and consider it to be music.
I LOVE Ray Charles…well, some of his music except for the shameless, over orchestrated covers but hey, he had to make a living.
I don’t take financial advice from Ray Charles.
I don’t take marital advice from Ray Charles.
I don’t take advice from Mr. Charles on virtually any topic other than “here is how I kicked heroin”.
Mr. Charles, if he was alive today, would be begging Kendrick Lamar or Anderson .Pak to record with them. Heck, for the last 20 years of his career, Sinatra could have been classified as a rapper. Leonard Cohen had a quarter-octave vocal range on a good day so he could be classified as a rapper.
Some people here need to add the following phrase to their tombstones “Get off my lawn”
It’s not up for debate. Whether one likes it is their business, but asserting it’s “not even music” vaporizes one’s credibility.
Last time I checked, aural phenomena that contains all of the above, simultaneously (and even only a few of the above, in concert) is what people call, “music.”
Talented and smart people say dumb things, and it’s dumb to agree with something dumb.
Rap is an acknowledged art form. It has millions of people who love it, buy it, celebrate it. Continuing to deny that it is art sounds, well, pretty ill-motivated.
I don’t like rap. I don’t listen to rap.
I don’t like twelve-tone music. I don’t listen to it.
I don’t like a lot of things. But they don’t get bumped from existence because I don’t like them. Or because Ray Charles or someone else doesn’t like them. Make an argument if you don’t want to appear lazy.
Oh, and trumpeting your mere dislike of rap -- as a thread starter -- is not a great look.
Let's just say the correct spelling starts with a "C". Let's be honest. It's just boring mono tones delivered in an aggressive manner and set to a boring backbround noise. All you need is a low level boom box noise machine and you're set to go. Who ever thought it was music? If you want poetry, you'd be better off with Pam Ayres. LOL
Rap is not something I care for, neither is hip-hop, but I get why some would love it. As an example, at 68, I have totally fallen for electronic music this past year, specially French and Danish, like High Tone, Zenzile, Danton Eepron, Jacob Bellens, Kasper Bjork, Air, William Orbitt, Boris Blank, WhoMadeWho, Alex Gopher, Yello, the list is endless. I understand the folks who are comfortable listening to what they know, but I could never live with my music like that. There is so much new stuff out there that knocks my socks off, I would be crazy for not wanting to discover it. The world of music never stops amazing me.
@pedroeb “Who ever thought (rap) was music?”
I’m all ears for your definition of “music.”
@tomcy6 Nah. I prefer to keep listening and appreciating lots of different types of music, including rap and Ray Charles (on occasion).
@pedroeb Okay, desperately-trying-to-stay-relevant cultural gatekeeper.
@emrofsemanon No, Quincy doesn’t hafta know. He’s one artist who never even dabbled in the art form he criticized, unlike Quincy Jones.
Finally, @jond Good call. Rap seems to be this group’s favorite genre to trash, though doing so usually reveals a level of being out-of-touch with a zeitgeist that's passed many by
Buy an older copy of Winter in America- preferred copy is Strata-East but the cheapie is a UK issue called The Bottle. Gil Scott Heron and Brian Jackson (on the Rhodes piano). It’s somewhat political (and interestingly not dated despite that) and has amazing melodic lines. Jackson’s piano is gorgeous, something I rarely use to describe that chime-y sound characteristic of the Rhodes. This was in some ways the spiritual ancestor to what we now call rap or hip-hop or Neo-soul. It is poetry, spoken word and the music is gorgeous.
Tired post that has been done several times over.
If you want to whine about a genre, you could have added your words to an existing post. No need to start yet another.
I have broad, eclectic tastes in music. Rap is not a big favorite, but the millions of people who really enjoy it, have a right to their opinion and don't need judgement from stuffy, closed-minded individuals.
Enjoy the music... whatever floats your boat.
Jeeze Louise who cares.
I'm way more on Ray Charles's opinion than maybe he is,
but it really doesn't matter. Just change the channel.
But....if you're talking about the desecration of a race due to culture, then that's different. And yes, it's real. But any who prefer to cry more than create, you will understand as you get older.
Socrates would say that whether "rap" is music is a question of definition, not of taste. For example, I hate James Taylor, but would never deny that what he does is music. And yet, in American usage, even before Webster's Third New International (1961), the third of seven definitions of music has been "any rhythmic sequence of pleasing sounds." By that standard, whether rap is music DOES depend on whether we happen to find it pleasing, which makes the question subjective after all! Likely this means "intended to be pleasing," not necessarily "found to be pleasing." And yet! Not a question to be trifled with, at least if you are a philosopher or lexicographer or both.
The easiest thing to have online is an opinion.
So here‘s mine: To me whatever Sting did in the last 40 years barely qualifies as music. It doesn’t do anything for me; I can’t learn anything from it. His post-Police stuff is either boring or masturbatory noodling--I could do that when I was 7. All you have to do is learn your instrument well and forget all about putting your heart in it. That’s nothing. That’s [expletive].
But that‘s just me.
Once again, if you think this definition defines rap, be my guest.
Okay, so Ray got up one fine morning, took a peek out the window, then retrieved the current copy of Billboard magazine from the mailbox and returned to his most favorite chair with a nice cup of coffee. It was then he discovered the growing popularity of rap on the charts and the reality of his waining career.
Then ... what’s that?! Oooohhh ....
@audiovideonirvana Wow. That really added to the sophistication level of the conversation. Sorry to be snarky, but adolescent quips like that don't strengthen your argument much
@shutupuface Yes, rap does fit those criteria. It’s not just a voice and a background rhythm, as much as people might want to reduce it as such. It's like saying all of Dvorak is atonal, no-tune self indulgence or all of Paul Winter is cheesy wanna-be world music.
@davedead Another grumpy old man railing against an art form he doesn’t understand. It’s also slightly hypocritical as many critics decried the Dead as aimless amateur noodling.
@davedead It is what it is. And as a Deadhead myself, I can call out generational blindness when I see it.
@simao Ok, but I certainly find it difficult to imagine that Jerry had an intellectual blindness to any genre of music.