PSA: Be Careful Dealing With Uptone Audio


Just a cautionary note for anyone wishing to purchase anything from Uptone Audio.

 

Over the past 3 or so years I have owned an ISO Regen, two LPS 1’s and two LPS 1.2’s. When they work they are OK. However, when they do not, you cannot really count on any meaningful support from Uptone Audio – under warranty or not – and even more so if you are not in the US. One of my LPS 1’s failed during the warranty period after less than a year of use. It would not output anything. I contacted Alex Crespi of Uptone who arranged for a replacement. I shipped the faulty LPS 1 back (costly). I received a replacement in about a month. The replacement I received had dings on the case that were not there in the first place. I just chalked it up to shipping issues. Two months later, the replaced unit failed again. It would not light up. It had more than a year left under warranty. I contacted Uptone again who requested I ship it back again for replacement. However, they discouraged it and proposed a credit of US$185 towards the purchase of a new LPS 1.2 in lieu of the warranty on the unit which faltered so quickly after it was replaced. Upon further questioning and correspondence with Uptone, it came to light that they had not repaired the unit I had sent in for warranty replacement with new parts. Instead they had replaced the board with parts culled from used and returned units previously sent in for trade in or repair purposes. In short, the warranty is tantamount to having your unit replaced with a used one which may or may not have been faulty in the first place, which they claim to have “tested”. It is no surprise that the unit faltered so quickly after their supposed warranty replacement then. As such, their so-called warranty replacement is pretty much flawed. Alex got defensive and quoted some self-derived metric about the failure rates of their products being extremely low and put the cause of successive failure in my units down to my bad luck. He also said that I had electrically damaged the unit which is baffling since I had used it only with their supplied OEM Meanwell switching power supply which still works fine up till today. To date, in the last 20 or so years of being in the hi fi hobby, these Uptone products are the only ones to have malfunctioned so badly.

 

Wishing to cut my losses and to avoid having to ship the faulty unit back to the US at costly charges when the “warranty” replacement would most likely fail again shortly, I paid the remainder towards a brand new LPS 1.2. Alex made it clear that he would not assist with repair of the faulty LPS 1 and I disposed of it.

 

I received a shipment of the LPS 1.2. However, when I unpacked it, the unit had a clear rattling noise when removed from the box. Upon closer inspection, there was a slight scratch on the front chassis plate and the screws were badly stripped. It was pretty clear that Alex had shipped me a used unit or one that had escaped their seemingly lax quality control. I contacted Uptone immediately and requested that they make arrangements for their carrier to collect the unit from me for return to them and replacement of a brand new unit to me. Alex admitted to their negligence citing size slippages and disparities in their OEM case specifications which caused the misfit and rattling noise and worn out Torx screwdrivers stripping the screws. He was certainly aware of the issues affecting the unit I was shipped. However, he refused to do anything about it. He suggested that he would send me some screws and that I open up the unit myself and mount some electrical tape inside the case to stop the rattling noise. Again, he seemed to be fully aware of the issue and how to fix it. Unfortunately, I am not technically inclined nor do I own a Torx screwdriver. To render those fixes I would have to pay a technician to do so. This is rich considering that I had paid for a new and finished product and was shipped a used and/or damaged one. I wrote back to insist on a replacement unit being sent to me and that Uptone arrange to cover the return shipping costs to themselves. Again, Alex refused steadfastly and got hostile, saying that I was taking advantage of them. How exactly am I taking advantage? I paid full price for a new and finished product – that is all I expect, no more and no less. Alex also stated that he did not wish to lose any money on this sale even though Uptone offers the best customer service possible. His final offer was that I return the LPS 1.2 to them at my own cost and that he would refund me the US$250 I had paid meaning I would have to write off the US$185 credit value on the disposed LPS 1 which he is contractually obliged to repair but had refused to assist me with.

 

In this whole experience with Uptone, Alex strikes me as someone who is simply full of excuses. He pays lip service to providing good customer service but it is really just marketing talk. When it comes to the crunch, he fails to deliver but instead makes excuses and puts the blame on anyone but Uptone and himself. Outrageously, he even believes in his own self manufactured press. I recall earlier correspondence with him on why the Uptone ISO Regen would disconnect from my DAC for no reason, requiring that I unplug and replug the DC cable from the Uptone LPS 1.2 for it to work again. Not knowing that I was powering it with a LPS 1.2, he began by questioning the power supply I used. When told it was a LPS 1.2, he blamed the issue on the Silanna chip Uptone used in the ISO Regen – after all, it was an Uptone supply and he could not blame that anymore. I mean you manufactured this product, sourced and supposedly tested the parts and then sold it to the customer as a finished product for good money. The sheer lack of responsibility, ethics and professionalism!

 

As an example of Alex being purely a marketing act, you can see on the Computer Audiophile forum how he derides Sonore’s optical module and Optical Rendu, since Uptone now makes a competing product. Recall, Uptone came into existence making derivative products such as USB fixers and power supplies to be used with Sonore’s series of streamers – the hypocrisy of it all.

 

I appreciate that others may have had a good experience dealing with Uptone Audio but unfortunately, that hasn’t been the case with me. Uptone strikes me as a bucket shop. There are lots of cottage industries and artisanal products in hi fi and that is fine and good, so long as they are run with honesty, integrity and professionalism and not at the expense of unsuspecting customers. Pete of Triode Wire Labs is a great example of a fine one man show company who provides great customer service. Uptone is definitely NOT - YMMV!


mikey8811

Showing 8 responses by mikey8811

@ianrmack no bitching. If you had read my post about Cardas I was asking for alternate contacts because time was pressing and I hadn't heard back from Cardas. Angela sent an email shortly after apologising for the delay in getting back.

@jaybe no agenda.

Cracks in connectors are pretty different from a device totally not working and an alleged replacement repaired with used parts from another return which failed soon after. Ditto for a supposed brand new unit with faults right out of the box.
Just stating my experience from correspondence with Uptone without embellishment. And as I said YMMV.

It seems that a lot of this happens with Uptone products from the experience of others too.
"I've owned both the lps1 and lps1.2 and though neither have failed on me, your story is not uncommon. Have many friends whose units failed. They sent it back for a new one, and the new one failed as well few months later."

"Same problem with the silanna chip for Regen.
Lps1 send back - new one failed within 2mths
Lps1-2 back in the US still waiting for parts.

Failure rate is quite high.
Have a few frd who encountered problems with mostly lps1 already"


http://www.xtremeplace.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=292759.0
 


@david_ten Yes, I too find the sharing of email chains distasteful but clearly Alex Crespi is unprofessional enough to not.

@thyname since you condone this behaviour, please know that Alex has your personal data too and will not hesitate to use it for his marketing purposes. By the way, I have not gotten my money back. I do not think I will.

Please also be aware that this is by no means a vendetta. I couldn’t give a spoke about what happens to Alex Crespi or Uptone. They have cheated me once and never again. I do however believe in karma and that what goes around comes around.
There is no upside for me in this at all. I paid good money for an item that was clearly used and damaged. That is an incontrovertible fact. I will also not see my money back.

The purpose of this post and those on other fora was simply to make others aware of the situation so that they may avoid similar pitfalls. I stated this clearly at the outset. I also stated clearly that YMMV. It is fortunate that some of you have had good experiences dealing with Uptone but that has clearly not been the case with me.

Ditto for many others on other fora who have responded to say that their LPS 1’s and 1.2’s have broken down in a similar manner. Warranty replacements/ repairs sent back to them have also suffered the same fate as mine - faltered shortly after they received them. This is no surprise given Uptone’s practice of using used parts from returns and repairs rather than new ones to render warranty service. This is telling about the quality of their product and warranty service.

Be very cautious when purchasing from small companies, especially one-man-show’s like Uptone. I have never found myself at such a loss when dealing with larger, more reputable companies as they are professionally run and inevitably care about maintaining their reputation. Of course there are exceptions like Pete of Triode Wire Labs that I mentioned in the opening post.

The other takeaway from this is to pay by Paypal or American Express rather than any other credit card. Both these payment methods offer a greater degree of consumer protection which include the covering of costly courier fees on returns. This is important when dealing with less professional merchants/ manufacturers located in other countries. For products like those that Uptone sells - with relatively low average selling prices - courier fees on returns of under warranty items which fail repeatedly, will make the entire economic premise untenable for customers located internationally. Many respondents on Asian based fora have agreed given their own experiences with Uptone products. I presume those in Europe and other countries will find the same too.


@thyname No, I did purchase the LPS 1 for a low price at all.
I would have expected an item repaired under warranty to have lasted for more than 2 months and that through the 2 year lifespan of that warranty period,  1 return would be sufficient. That is a very reasonable expectation. I reiterate that in my 25 or so years in this hobby nothing has failed so badly as these Uptone items, period.
How exactly did Alex try to accommodate me on this latest LPS 1.2 purchase? By doing nothing and just saying he provided good customer service? Either you are very benevolent or have fairly low expectations.
In fact from your posts, one may say that you have an agenda too.
I have said my piece. Believe what you will.
You are the one that needs to be real.
I am NOT gaming anything.
Do the math yourself - I did not pay just $250. I paid $435 for a brand new LPS 1.2 with the $185 being an imputed credit to void the warranty if I were to have received a brand new LPS 1.2.
The total consideration is $435 and NOT $250 for a brand new LPS 1.2.
So since Uptone reneged on the contract by shipping me a used LPS 1.2, they will need to refund me a total of $435, since the warranty on the LPS 1 is no longer void but reinstated with the value of $185 that Alex quoted himself.

It is basic contract law.
Based on your terminology, it is Alex who is gaming the system to get out of a warranty he doesn’t wish to honour.
All I expected was what was promised to me - a brand new LPS 1.2 and that was certainly NOT delivered.
Case closed

@thyname the feeling is mutual - it would be painful for me to deal with you too. I am glad we never have to.
1. I purchased a used LPS 1 - it was current generation then and had another 2 years left to the fully transferable warranty offered by Uptone.

So is it a crime to purchase used? If Alex is averse to honouring his own transferable warranty, he shouldn’t have specified it that way. But likewise, with NO resale value on used LPS units, there will be a lower demand for new units. You cannot have your business model cake and eat it too.

While I am unsure of its provenance, it was sold to me with the OEM Meanwell power supply that Uptone provides. Whether the original purchaser bought that at the same time, I do not know. Why the fuss? He subsequently says I overdrove it but not at the time and I have been using the same Meanwell all the while. That Meanwell still works so I do not think it is the issue but just a scapegoat.

I used the LPS 1 with said Meanwell power supply that meets Uptone specifications. That is a fact.

2. It failed and I sent it in for a repair.

Uptone sent me back a replacement repaired with a used board culled from a return and NOT a new one. This is in the correspondence you cite unless Alex decided to leave it out selectively as he is wont to do when it doesn’t suit his version of events.
That replacement LPS 1 failed after 2 months of use most likely because it was repaired with used parts.
Other posters on other fora have concurred that their repaired LPS 1’s also failed very soon after. That is a fact too.
This is no coincidence - it is a pattern very likely due to Uptone’s warranty repair practices.
3. Like @jc4659 , I initially considered just having it returned for repair to save money but decided against it given the costly courier fees and the unreliability of the warranty repair given my experience with the previous one and Alex’s admission that he employed used parts.

4. Unlike @jc4659 ’s case however, Alex offered me a trade in value of $185 in settlement of the remaining 1 year of warranty on the LPS 1. As such, I paid a total of $435 being $250 in cash and the $185 in credit to absolve him of the warranty. This is the price for a brand new LPS 1.2 - no more, no less.

As I would not be receiving any further assistance with the soon-after-replacement-now-faulty LPS 1, I disposed of it.

Do NOT think for one moment that Alex did me any favours or went out of his way.
5. I did not just NOT like the LPS 1.2. As you can see from the posts on Computer Audiophile and WBF, the LPS 1.2 I was shipped was clearly used and/or damaged.
6. I had paid a total of $435 for a brand new LPS 1.2 but clearly did not receive one. I contacted Alex straightaway and requested that he arrange for a carrier of his choice to collect the LPS 1.2 and resend me a brand new one I had paid for.
7. Alex refused and offered me a refund of the $250 if I sent the LPS 1.2 back to him at my own expense. This would put me out of pocket for the $185 in credit (for the LPS 1) plus the courier fees.
In what alternate universe does this work out as an equitable offer to me?
All I requested for was to be sent a brand new LPS 1.2 for which I had paid a total of $435 - no more, no less.
All this is patently clear in my original post and the email correspondence that Alex posted albeit somewhat unprofessionally.
These are all irrevocable facts.

That you have chosen to read it with your own slant favouring Alex and Uptone is your prerogative. But do NOT presume to judge the situation through your biased view.
As I have said all along this is my experience dealing with Alex and Uptone. Others like @jc4659 obviously received better treatment.

As such, from my experience, Alex is all marketing talk with no delivery.
There is no point in furthering the discussion with you since you are biased. We will just have to disagree.
@thyname you just don’t understand contract law. If the amount were large enough, I would have sued Uptone. In which case, I hope you would be his counsel. Either way legally, it is a clear cut case.
@the_treble_with_tribbles , all I ever asked for was a new LPS 1.2 that was properly assembled and for Uptone to cover the return shipping fees on the used one they sent. I would have thought that was a reasonable request since we had agreed on that.
@gdnrbob I have not received my money from the chargeback. It does not look like I will. That is why I advised buyers to use Paypal and American Express and not another credit card like I had.

Like I said, there isn’t any upside for me here. I will end up with a used LPS 1.2 for which I paid $435. That was Uptone’s intention after all. Uptone will certainly not honour the warranty on it. But that it no big loss given my experience with their dubious warranty service that others also seem to have experienced.
@glupson Yes, one really has to have luck when purchasing an Uptone product. Because everything is considered to be the customer's fault. Rattling noise from a mis-specified board size, botched up assembly and screw job, warranty replacement that failed after 2 months.

The "statistics" Alex quotes never add up. The LPS 1 was supposedly less reliable with a 3% failure rate. Yet the LPS 1.2 which is supposedly more reliable has a 5% failure rate when it suits him. But as he mentions to a customer on the receiving end, do not mention it to anyone as it is their cash cow.
The 3% and 5% seem to encompass an ever increasing number of people so it probably isn't really 3-5% anyway but higher.
Ultimately, even a customer who bought new and directly from Uptone and was taken care of, found Alex's business practices dubious and sold off all his Uptone products.
@the_treble_with_tribbles  go through the whole email chain. You will find if nothing has been left out that the scenario is as I depicted in my opening post.
As I have said before, I have not received the money back, regardless of whether Uptone had their funds deducted or not. My credit card issuing bank's policy is to hold the funds in escrow until the case is resolved. I doubt I will see the money back.

Another point that is perhaps of more interest to folk here is whether items purchased on the secondary market are entitled to warranty cover. In Uptone's case, their policy is a transferable 3 year warranty so that is not really relevant here. They are merely fulfilling their warranty policy by assisting with a faulty used product so long as the warranty period is valid. Alex has NOT gone out of his way to be helpful to me here. The same goes for the $185 credit he provided to absolve himself of said warranty towards the LPS 1 that failed shortly after a previous repair. He cannot have a warranty policy that way and then discriminate against people who have bought Uptone items used. But you have also seen from the experience of others who bought direct that much bantering and delaying was needed before Uptone took care of their issues.

If a manufacturer states upfront and outright that secondary market items are not entitled to warranty claims then so be it. But that is certainly not the case with Uptone. If he did that, the demand for new Uptone units will drop - you just need to look at the number of LPS 1's and 1.2's that are frequently available for sale to see that many that buy them subsequently trade out of them.
I have had experience with other manufacturers that have varied. Krell for example used to be country oriented. I have relocated around the world for work and an original unit bought from an authorised distributor in one country is only entitled to limited warranty in another within the warranty period. This is perhaps to protect their dealer network. Mark Levinson when it was under Madrigal allowed for warranty coverage wherever you are or were subsequently located regardless of the original country of purchase. But overall, in hi fi, I have found that it is rare for manufacturers not to be responsible for secondary market products so long as they are within the warranty period.
@the_treble_with_tribbles  Thank you for taking the time to go through the copious email chain.

Thanks also for your impartial reading of the situation.
As I mentioned, it seems unlikely that I will see my money back but do hope that people will see the issues here for what they really are.