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Preamp Quandary - sonics vs. ergonomics??

I have been auditioning (buying and selling) preamps for over a year now. My only absolute criteria is that the preamp must be a fully balanced design that has low enough output impedance to effectively drive my McCormack DNA 500 amp (10K input impedance). However, since my system is in the living room, there are some ergonomic considerations including the potential for other users. After trying several, I currently have two pretty good but different preamps, an Atma-Sphere MP3 that is maxed out with teflon caps, regulated power upgrade, caddock resistor package, and user-applied 3M constrained layer damping sheets. It also has Jensen transformers for phono that I do not use. My other preamp is an Ayre K-5xe which is an outstanding ergonomic match with my CX-7e source. The comparisons are;

Ayre K-5xe - very user friendly, stays on all the time, uses the same remote as my CX-7e source, no heat issues, dead quiet, smooth sounding with tight punchy bass and adequate decay for a SS unit, no turn-on/off issues, heat, DC worries or other tube related concerns. In other words a competant performer which is the perfect operational match for my situation.

Atma-Sphere MP3; deep bass, dynamics that you can feel in your chest, well-extended for a tube unit and has that "rightness" only tubes seem to be able to provide, outstanding 3-dimensionality, and an outstanding midrange that puts the performers in the room with you. In short, this is the best sounding preamp I have heard in my system, but not the easiest to use.

Have any of you made a similar choice, and did you have any regrets?
mitch2

Showing 5 responses by jmcgrogan2

jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
Yes, quite a few times. Yes, there have been regrets. I sometimes wonder why I paint myself into a corner with 'requirements' like must be fully balanced, must have remote, must have such amount of gain and such amout of input/output impedence. I've also flip/flopped back and forth on the tube issue. When I have a tube unit, I long for the power and dependibility of SS. When I have a SS unit, I miss the liquidity and 'realness' of tubes.
Currently I'm looking to head back into tubesville. It's been long enough that I've almost forgotten about the maintenance issues, and believe me IME, tube units require a much higher maintenance cost than SS. In other words, I like the tubes but they don't like me. :)

BTW, is one of the reasons you say the Atmasphere is not the easiet to use because it has no remote? I was considering this preamp, but honestly, I'm not sure if I could live w/o a remote anymore. Sad isn't it? I never had a remote until the year 2000. I was in this hobby for 25 years with no remote, and now I don't think I could live w/o it. Maybe for a month or two, but that's all.
jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
How can you consider the ARC Ref 3, but not the BAT VK-51SE due to cost? Last I checked the Ref 3 cost more than the VK-51SE.

Strangely, when I spoke of maintenance cost of tube units, the problems I've had on the units themselves cost more than the cost of tube maintenance. Capacitors, displays, and other items. For some reason I've never had capacitor or display or any other problems with solid state preamps. I don't know if it's just bad luck or what, but my last two tube preamps cost me over $1500 in repair fees, and that's not including tubes, in a two year window.

That's why I say that I like the tubes, but they don't like me.

As for boxing yourself in, any item you buy will do this to some extent. Buy a CJ amp with higher input impedance and you may box out balanced preamps and/or difficult to drive speakers. Everything comes with limitating factors that will make one make decisions for proper system integration.
What if you decide to match up all of the impedence, balance/unbalanced, etc requirements, and the unit doesn't sound good to you? What if by buying a new amp to open up your preamp options, you wind up limiting your speaker options?

IMHO, it never ends. All items present limitations that will require careful matching on the front end and/or back end.
jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
Actually, the Ayre K-1xe that Kurt mentions is a good example of Mitch's preamp quandry of sonics vs. ergonomics for me. I've read that it sounds great. I haven't heard one, but I have heard other Ayre gear and I always thought they represented a good value. The reason I've never pulled the trigger on a Ayre preamp? No balance control, that's all. Yes, 90-95% of my listening is done with balance centered, but there are some recordings that sound better with a slight image shift. Not to mention how it helps trouble shooting everything behind the preamp.
I know Ayre says they don't use a balance control for the sake of signal purity. However, they do use a remote control. Some manufacturers don't use a remote for signal purity's sake. How much convienience do you want to give up for signal purity? That is a personal choice.

It's the same issue with a remote control(in general, not with the Ayre). I try to convince myself that I can live w/o a remote, but everyone that I've talked to tells me not to bother. They claim they've tried it and after a few weeks it drove them nuts and they sold the piece. I could see that happen to me. Again, I don't use the remote often, but it's nice to have one when you want one. I think I would try to live w/o a remote before I would live w/o a balance control. But that's just me.

For me, I guess it's not about the absolute sound. I have minimum qualifications about ergonomics and maximum qualifications about cost. I try to find something that meets my qualifications and sounds the best to me.

Regards,
John
jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
12-17-06: Tvad
Have you considered a VAC preamp...like a VAC Renaissance or Renaissance Signature? Talk about a company that's at the top of the customer service heap. The VAC preamps are balanced, have phono, and remotes.

Well I have had terrible luck with the 2 VAC components that I have owned. I'll spare the details as it is not relevent to this thread.
I will point out though that the VAC preamps are not true balanced designs. They have balanced inputs and outputs, but only by using input transformers that shunt the negative leg to ground. Essentially they are single ended preamps that convert the signal at the rear panel. Quasi-balanced if you will. You could get similar performance by using Cardas XLR/RCA adapters on any single ended preamp.

The VAC's are not true balanced preamps like the Atma-Sphere and Ayre that Mitch already owns.

John
jmcgrogan2's avatar
jmcgrogan2
6,346 posts
 
12-17-06: Tvad
Sometimes I don't think true balanced is all it's cracked up to be.

I can certainly agree with that statement. That goes back the the original quandry. Many owners of SE sources and SE amps look for a SE preamp as a qualifier. Most owners of balanced sources and amps will have balanced as one of their preamp qualifiers. Again, balanced/unbalanced has nothing to do with quality of sound, but it can be a requirement to a owner during component searches, just like remote options, impedence characteristics, tube/ss, etc.
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