Preamp Deal of the Century

Decided to throw my hat in the ring. Today I ordered a SupraTek Cortese linestage from Mick. I'm sure it'll be 4-6 months till it is completed. This will be my first piece of tube equipment. Hopefully, I can get off this upgrade merri-go-round soon. After I buy this preamp, a new power amp, power cords for each, and interconnects.

OT, but I wonder if Audiophilia could be classified as a disability and compensated for in some fashion under the American w/Disabilities Act. Even a tax write-off would be nice.

How are the Cortese linestage tubes wired. Is is one tube per channel or does Mick use one triode section of each tube for the left and right channel?

How long does it take to clear customs? Mick shipped my cortese on 2/24 and it has been in Memphis for 2 weeks waiting to clear customs.

What kind of tube is the 101D and what is it's function in Mick's new preamp?

I've never heard of it before and NOS examples of the 101D appear to be harder to come by than a 350B.

I am sure the preamp sounds wonderful. But the availability of 101D's will influence any new purchase decision.

I received my cortese linestage about 10 days ago. My cortese has one pair of RCA inputs and one pair balanced outputs, no source selector. Prior to the cortese I was connecting my DAC directly to my power amp. With the cortese, the noise floor of the recordings is not so apparent as it was in the no preamp config but all the detail is still there. One of the revelations of going to a no preamp config was that I found a song in my CD collection that has a very low-level of feedback in the recording that only lasted about a second. It frustrated me later, because at the the time I was so engrossed in the music that I forgot to make a note of the CD and track number, so I never could find the song title even though I went through my CD collection several times looking for the track. After I installed the cortese I happened to be playing the same CD in my jukebox player and listening from another room when I heard the feedback again. For the curious, the track is "simple faith" on CD "simple things" by chuck loeb. The feedback occurs on the left channel.

The first night the cortese was in my system I wept (literally, and I am a 6'5" former marine) with joy. I've had an occaisonal recording give me the chills before, but this was the first time I ever had one make me cry. The recording was "over the rainbow" performed by Kirk Whalum, it was the most beautiful sax and piano piece I had ever heard. At the time I was using stock tubes. Don't be misled by my previous statement and think the cortese is all syrupy and euphonic, because IMO the cortese leans slightly to the accurate and revealing side of things while maintaining a very natural presentation of the music.

In my system the cortese is extremely quiet with no self-noise or tube rush apparent at all. The only noise I ever heard was an occaisonal tic maybe once a day while my nos tubes were settling in. I have about 200 hours on the preamp right now. I wonder how long till breakin is complete? My current nos tubes are sylvania vt-231, rca 6l6gc, and sylvania 5ar4 (big bottle).

I have the Cortese and a Sim Audio W-5. I think the combo works very well. Supratek preamps should mate well with most SS amps. You should email Mick with the input impedence and gain of the X250 and ask him if he has any concerns about component matching.

I ordered my cortese in the middle of november and it was completed in the end of february, much sooner than I expected. So not everyone has the long wait. Don't know why mine was done so quickly but it is a linestage only with no source selector so that may have been a factor.

Someone here recently commented on the "open" tube style of the preamp's design. I think that is one of the strengths of the preamp since it allows for a wider selection of tube substitutes. It also allows the tubes to resonate in the open and dissipate heat.

I wouldn't be overly concerned about people selling the Supratek's. Firstly, be glad that they do sell. Secondly, if you are a happy owner why would you care what someone else thinks of your preamp. I have purchased about $7k in NOS tubes for my cortese, a lifetime supply. Me and my cortese will be together till I croak.

Most tubephiles will agree that the 6SN7GT and VT-231 sound much better than everything else. At least initially I would just pick up a pair of Ken Rad VT-231 black-glass and a pair of Sylvania VT-231. The Sylvania VT-231 usually goes for about $40-50/pr used in good condition and $70-80 NOS on eBay. Ken Rad VT-231's usually go for about an additional $20/pr on top of the Sylvania prices. There are very few actual NOS tubes sold on eBay regardless of the claims. However I wouldn't let that stop you. You can a get a couple of used pairs cheaply on eBay and once you determine your preference you can buy the bigbuck NOS tubes from a more reputable tube dealer.

I have a Cortese so the Syrah maybe different. Anyhow, Mick told me that in the Cortese the rectifier is set to output 370 volts. The voltage-regulator tubes burn 70 volts and the 6SN7's use the other 300 volts. Keep in mind that the 6SN7 is dual-triode rated at up to 300 volts/triode, so 600 volts/tube. 6L6G's and 5881's can handle 250-300 volts with ease. Mick runs the tubes very conservatively.

As far as power tubes. I think the ST shaped 6L6G's (Sylvania, RCA, Ken Rad, Tung-Sol, etc) are better than the Tung-Sol 5881'S and they are certainly less expensive. With rectifier tubes, I prefer the GZ33 over the GZ34. The GZ33 is less expensive, probably lasts longer, outputs more current, and sags less than the GZ34. I have noticed a slight voltage sag from my Cortese with the GZ34. It only occurs on complex musical passages while I am playing very loudly.

If you have questions about what tubes will work in the Syrah as far as tube substitution goes, I would email Mick "the Man" Maloney. He'll be glad to answer your questions and I am sure his answers are more accurate than mine.

6SN7GT and VT-231 from the same time period are the same tube. VT-231 is the military designation. You see it alot because from time-to-time the military auctions stuff in storage. If you are buying NOS/NIB 40's vintage 6SN7's it is probably easier to find VT-231's than it is to find 6SN7GT's.

IMO Brent Jesse has the most reasonable tube prices (with very good quality) of any online dealer. I have bought from Brent before and will do so again.

Bruce Wenger of BWS Consulting (search google) is probably the most service oriented dealer I know. He designs and mods tube gear and dacs but he also sells from his tube stash. Bruce always calls me a couple days after an order to make sure that I am pleased (no one else has ever done that) and if I bought two sets of tubes from him and found that I preferred one over the other he would let me trade in the less preferred set for something else (I've never taken him up on it though). If you buy something from Bruce you can be sure it is good. I told him once I wanted 4 pairs of NOS Sylvania VT-231 and he called me back later and said that he only had 3 NOS matched pairs that he could make and that any other matched pairs he had would be in used condition. Some other dealers would have been tempted to "MAKE" a pair just to get that extra sale, but not Bruce. Bruce's prices are not cheap, they are roughly on par with Bob Malecki of tubeseller.com.

I've bought from Bob before also and will do so again but he never has Sylvania VT-231's. Also Bob Malecki only has 6SN7's for sale, so no matter how much you like him you will have to go somewhere else for you power tubes and rectifiers.

I don't have any vinyl. I have Cortese. Heck, we don't care what you got anyway. It's where your interest lie that matters.

There has been some comments questioning the ability of a balanced SET configuration. I have one by Mick and this is how he refers to his implementation.

"Of course, strictly speaking, when you use the balanced outputs, it isn't SE, but it is the purest form of balancing you can get- it's often called SEPP (Single Ended Push Pull) although the use of the term push pull isn't
quite correct."

I think Waltersalas has the same Plinius amp. If he doesn't read this, then email him.

Lisbon, use paypal if you can.

Petland, Talk to tucker about the mods he did just to find out what was changed. Don't go putting the 5u4g in the preamp until you talk to Mick about it. SupraTek preamps require indirecly heated (slow-start) rectifiers. GZ32, GZ34, GZ33, and GZ37 are okay. Mick uses the GZ37 in his personal preamp. I prefer the GZ33 in mine. Either are less expensive than the NOS Mullard and Amperex GZ34 and they last longer and output more current to boot.

Any of the older NOS 6L6G/6L6GA made by Sylvania, RCA, Tung-Sol or Ken-Rad will do nicely in the SupraTek preamp. I've also used Syl 5932, TS 5881, and RCA 6L6GC blk-plt. Mick uses the 7027a as regulator in his pre. I have several pairs of these but haven't gotten around to trying them out.

For 6SN7 try the RCA grey-glass, Sylvania VT-231, Sylvania 6SN7GT bottom-getter with green lettering, KEN-RAD black glass. There are many more but these are the most notable.

bwhite - How many hours do you have on the cortese over the course of those 10 days? My cortese is dead quite also, but my chassis is slightly microphonic to the touch. Probably a result of my 6SN7's and not a reflection of the cortese. I am using symposium rollerblock jrs under my chassis and I use hal-o tube dampers also.

Louisl - I have run my DAC direct into my poweramp for 3 months prior to purchasing my cortese. "No" preamp sounds very good, I am able to hear every note, every detail, the noise floor of the recordings is very apparent because my system is so quite. But this can be a little distracting because everything that is on a recording isn't necessarily music.

With the cortese I still hear every note, every MUSICAL detail, but the noise floor of the recordings isn't in your face although you can still hear it. There are plenty of things the cortese brings to my system that "no" preamp can not. These are palpability, presence, and the emotion of the music. And no, the cortese is not euphonic at all, I wouldn't have it if it was.

Stevem1960 - You touch on a very important point that the "no" preamp crowd would do well to consider. The "no" preamp scenario presupposes several things. That the audiophile has a very good poweramp that he likes, that the source has enough voltage to drive the poweramp, that the source output impedence and poweramp input impedence match well, the poweramp has enough gain, and that the output stage of the source is up to the job. I truly believe that with the right preamp, the interaction between source and preamp and between preamp and poweramp can create a system whose sum is greater than the parts. For me the cortese is that preamp.

Another of the great things about the cortese is that the subtle variations of tone from the instruments really comes out. I am digging my jazz recordings all over again. Sax's don't just breathe more but you get some of the harmonic decay just like in a live performance. And guitar, wow! Buddy Guy, Lee Ritenour, Wes Montgomery, Jeff Golub, all sound kickin. I find myself sometimes playing just favorite parts of recordings so I can soak up the tone.

Audioobsessed - Supratek preamps have balanced and RCA outputs. But only RCA inputs. The preamp will drive a balanced poweramp but you'll be single-ended from the source. The preamp is a SET, I think only push-pull configurations can be balanced all the way through. Email Mick if you have questions.

Tube matching is a must with push-pull configurations. With single-ended configurations (like all SupraTek's) it is optional but still a good idea. Ditto the need for a tube-tester, esp for someone who has invested a couple thousand in tubes. A good B&K 747B or TV-7 can be had for just a couple hundred dollars.

Stevem11960, Mick writes that his new preamps will have higher gain. What he doesn't say is how much gain the newer preamps will have, but 20db is the theoretical maximum gain a 6SN7GT. Otherwise I certainly agree with the tone of your post.

I ordered the Cabernet from Mick. I'll let everyone know how it compares to the Sauvignon when I get it.

When I first got my Sauvignon I quizzed Mick on the acceptable tube substitutes. He told me not to use the 6550's or KT88's as voltage-regulators. I never asked why.

Whatever a person settles on for regulators and rectifiers, they need to be considered together as a whole. I prefer the dual-plate 5932 and gz33 together because this combo never stumbles on large dynamic contrasts. There is definitely a interactive aspect between regulator and rectifier. A different rectifier may well prefer a different regulator.

You just got the word from the man. How could we give you a more informed answer? The reason for no directly-heated rectifiers is the that they don't have a slow startup. When you power it on the components don't have time to adjust to the current voltage. This causes shorter cathode stripping and leads to tube life, shorter cap life, etc. The chances of damage increase with each time you turn it on. If you decide to continue using the UX-280 you should leave it powered on at all times.

Those with lowbrau tastes will find it difficult to appreciate the enlightened qualities of Supratek preamps.

Given the nature of the following of Supratek owners on this thread a non-supratek-owner can only conclude that either Mick's creations are as good as everyone says or that everyone is smoking the same stuff.

So let me get this straight. Someone is trying to tell Supratek owners that since we choose to tube roll in preamps that we purchased that our preamps cannot be the "preamp deal of the century" just because they all sound a little different. Let me assure everone that my Sauvignon is much better than the "preamp deal of the century" it is MY PREAMP and I don't give a care what anyone, especially someone who has never heard a Supratek, thinks about it.

Likewise, we all listen to our Suprateks with different ears, in different rooms, with different systems, and different music. None of which invalidates our personal preferences and experiences. Hi-End audio isn't about group-think, its about personal indulgence in musical reproduction. Now philosophize about that.

Cello - Try the B&K 747B. It is a solid-state design, is reliable, and low-maintenance. Alternately get a TV-7. It will test older tubes like the WE101D (used in the Grange) that the 747B cannot test. The TV-7 is very popular with tube sellers on ebay. There is a guy in Chandler AZ named Dan Nelson, who is nationally known for rebuilding and calibrating TV-7's. Dan calibrated my B&K 747B. Contact me if you want his info.

Ecclectique very eloquently stated the benefits of tube rolling the regulators but he didn't comment on soundstage stability during very large dynamic peaks. IMO, this is very important in an all-tube power supply. Just something else to consider.

Linkster,

2. I don't know of anyone on this thread who has heard both old and new versions. Email Mick.

3. I have the older version Sauvignon. I have a Cabernet on order. I will post my initial impressions soon after I get it.

5. Waltersalas had the First Sound PD II and has the Syrah now.

Just got THE email from Mick. He is building my cabernet right now. It'll take about a week to finish building it and then he runs it in for awhile before he ships. I hope to take delivery within a month.

Never listened to the Cabernet. From trading emails with Mick about the dif between the Sauvignon and Cabernet, and reading posts on AA regarding the DHT sound I believe that I have a good idea of how the Cabernet will sound. I think I will prefer the Cabernet over the Sauvignon in my system but I think that it will be a matter of preference and synergy as to which is better. I am expecting there to be some tradeoffs in sound between the two.

I will say that I believe that Mick has a certain kind of sound that he voices for. In other words Mick doesn't just engineer a good design and then just assemble top-shelf components. Mick has done a lot of experimenting with different designs, implementations, and components and he knows how each will affect the sound and which will get him to the sound he is looking for. Some of this is apparent from his webiste, the rest I gathered from trading emails with him and asking silly questions. So because I have confidence in how he voices his gear and because I already have one of his preamps, the decision to purchase another of his preamps was not a hard decision to make.

I have the Sauvignon, the line-stage version of the Cortese. The Cabernet is the linestage version of the Grange. According to Mick the only tube complement difference between the two linestages is the 101D. There are at least 2 subs, the WE101D and WE101F. The WE101FA, WE216A might also work. These tubes are somewhat scarce but the good thing about them is that the WE datasheets state an average life of 40,000 hours. So one pair of NOS WE101D tubes could last over 4 years of 24/7 operation or the whole life of a preamp if you only leave it on a few hours a day.

I use Symposium Rollerblock Jrs underneath my SupraTek also. I picked up my grade 3 tungsten carbide balls from mcmaster carr. I forget the price but it was less that half of what Symposium wanted to charge. One of the benefits I noticed with the rollerblocks was an increase in variation of instrumental tones, the opposite of a coloration which would tend to make music more homogenized.

Stevem1960? 'feel good'? I'm not going to flame you. But it makes perfect sense for us to try to get the very best out of our investments. I certainly wouldn't go to all this trouble if it didn't make a difference.

I just got my preamp last week and I ordered it the middle of November.

Harness - The Supratek preamps can be wired with balanced outputs. But the preamp is a SET and it is not possible to have it balanced from input to output. The only balanced (input to output) tube preamp I know of is BAT. Fully balanced requires a push-pull configuration which requires closely matched tubes.

Clipsal, the Sylvania VT-231 and Sylvania 6SN7GT tall-boy (green letterring and VT-231 construction) are probably the best choices for your tastes. I would get one pair of each and decide for yourself which you prefer. Roll the regulators while you are at it.

You should audition several pairs of cables in your system from www.fatwyre.com, buy the ones you like best. I would try something from Cardas, Kimber, Acoustic Zen, and MIT within your price range. Decide on your interconnects first. Then choose your speaker cables. If you find cables don't make a difference to you, count yourself lucky. In that case, NOS tubes probably won't matter to you either. Think of all the money you are going to save with lamp cord cabling and sovtek tubes.

Ecclectique - How do you "discover" these wildcat tube substitutions? FWIW, the 6V6G and similar tubes also work as regs in the supratek.

Swampwalker - there is a gain attentuator on the back of the syrah that is independent of the volume control, turning it counter-clockwise opens it up. Make sure your input and output are selected properly. Other than that, you should go to Mick.

Artar1 - I have an older model Cortese linestage with only 12db gain. Current models have 27db gain. I can't comment on the phono stage but judging from the linestage I don't think there is the any romanticism in the Supratek Preamps. They tend to be about as transparent as you would expect with a passive linestage. FWIW, I also have what is perhaps the most transparent of all passive-preamps, EVS nude-attentuators. Maybe that qualifies as "ruthlessly revealing", I'll let you decide.

Painting with a broad brush in this comparison, I would say the Supratek preamps are the antithesis to the CJ and Hovland house-sound and more in-line with the First Sound products.

Artar1 - just for clarification purposes. I would not consider the Cortese "high-pitched, overly defined, etched, clinical, bright, or overly dynamic". It is certainly not etched or cinical. However it also certainly does not have that "golden" sound you are looking for.

Saint2 - You don't mention your musical tastes and what you want from your system.

Artar1 - I would say that you have made a very accurate assessment of the cortese without having heard it. The one caveat being that with the neutrality of the cortese it will be possible to add some ying or yang with proper tube-rolling.

Artar1 - "The Supratek is no less accomplished in presenting musical truth, but does so with greater sophistication and less austerity."

Probably a very astute conclusion. Especially considering you haven't had the benefit of an audition. Tube-rolling will allow you to tweak the sound more to your liking. There are 4 tube types to roll in the Supratek linestages. Only one in the First Sound, the 6922 I believe. The First Sounds 0A2 regulator cannot be rolled, or so I have been told.

Waltersalas has the Supratek Syrah and had the First Sound PD for a while also. I think he was able to do some side-by-side listening comparisons. You might contact him for more info.

I got my cabernet yesterday. Mick shipped on the 4th and I got it on the 8th, so that was pretty fast delivery. Let me tell you just a bit about the cabernet. It is the linestage only version of the grange. The normal tube compliment is 6j5, 101D, 5881, and gz34. Note that the 6j5 is a single triode tube and one half of a 6sn7. Because I have so many 6sn7's, I asked Mick to wire my cabernet for the 6sn7. It only uses one triode in the 6sn7 but the left and right sockets are wired to use different triodes. So I can swap 6sn7 tubes between sockets to make sure that each triode in a tube can be used. Best I can tell there are only 2 gain stages in the Cabernet and it does not invert phase unless you do it with a phase switch

The other signal tube is the 101D. Mick ships the preamp with the TJ101D, this tube has a mesh plate structure that is built kind of like shredded wheat cereal. The TJ101D has 2 getters which are perpendicular to the mesh structure. Overall the TJ101D construction looks very good. Besides the tennis-ball shape and the pinout it doesn't bare a lot of physical similarity to the WE101D. Electrically the TJ101D may be very similar to the WE101D but construction-wise it looks like its own tube design instead of a copy.

The power supply seems to weigh about 40lbs by itself. This preamp has the rectifier and regulator tubes in the power-supply. The Sauvignon I got from Mick last year only had the rectifier in the power supply. The preamp did not ship with a power cord. Not a big deal but those in the market to buy a Supratek preamp should plan on picking up a power cord also.

Mick is still shipping the same remote control with his preamps. Has anyone tried replacing this thing with one of those programmable universal remotes? You know the remotes that look like PDA's.

Last year Mick shipped the preamp and power supply together in one of those FedEx 25kg boxes. It was well packed then. This year Mick shipped the preamp and power supply seperately in their own 25kg boxes. They are really well packed now.

I prefer a minimalist design and my preamp configuration relfects that. There is only one set of inputs, rca and xlr outputs, volume control, balance control with a bypass switch, and a gain selector on the back of the preamp. Of course there is no source selector, no tape loop, no phase switch, no mono, no mute, etc.

I told Mick early on that I had bought 10 pair of NIB WE101D for use in the preamp. Mick builds the preamp to be auto-biasing and although he builds it for the TJ101D he made doubly certain that it would auto-bias with the WE101D also. He delayed shipping over a week to make certain it was right. I really appreciate that.

This preamp is supposed to have up to 30db of gain.
I have not had a chance to listen to the preamp yet. It will be a couple of weeks till I get to do that. I'll be sure to let everyone know how it sounds in the upcoming weeks.

both of my preamps shipped with the plastic remote. wonder if anyone has tried to integrate the supratek preamps into one of those high-dollar universal remote jobs.

Cello - Don't the Grange and Cortese have the same phono stage? Ask Mick to be sure. I think the difference between the two is the linestage portion.

Amandarae - patience... I think it took over 6 weeks for me to get my Cabernet after Mick started building it. He started building it in the middle of January and I got it on March 8.

Thamnosma - Mick builds his preamps with a mono switch if you ask for it. Or maybe you don't have to ask for it. I specifically stated that I didn't want a mono switch when I ordered my 2 preamps.

found out last week that the tj101d has a ux-4 base, like the 300b. the we101d has a uv-4 base. the two bases do not fit the same socket. so right now, there is no way we101d will play in Mick's cabernet/grange. something to consider.

yamamoto makes a special teflon socket which has 8 holes instead of 4 and will support both uv-4 and ux-4 bases.