Placement for Soliloquy speakers

Fascinating. In a house, would a room's ability to handle bass as alluded to above be changed by whether a door was open or closed? Standard door.

If so better or less able?

I've got the point there are a zillion variables. This is just in a house with a room that can be enclosed but can also be quite open versus just moving speakers to a larger room. No problem experimenting a bit just wondering what you think.

How bout startin with a Yes or No to the first question for all of us simpletons out there.

I suggest you extrapolate the specifics for your application. I can say, that it is typical in the recording industry to create bass traps in attic spaces and adjoining rooms of the studio for the very low frequencies.

An adjoining space is lined with fiberglas batt insulation for absorbtion, and an opening to it is covered with say 1/8" plywood depending on the frequencies you want to pass through to be absorbed, and those you want reflected back into the space.

The space itself is sized for specific frequencies based on the length of its cycle. The lower the frequeny, the larger the space.

Perhaps you can see the futility in attempting to deal with frequencies pretty much below even 200hz, as it becomes a major task. And at say 50hz and below, near impossible.

Better to omit them from the environment, or advance to dipole speaker designs which tend to excite the lower frequency pressure zones and modes in the first place.

If you want to study acoustic issues at greater depth see 'Master Handbook of Acoustics (Everet) available in paperback.

Gyp. board covered studwalls are the best for low frequencies because they can pass through. The worst would be a concrete basement where they would instead be reflected back into the space.

If we were engineers and commissioned to design your space acoustically, we would calculate doors, windows, and the different wall constructions extant. For instance, an outside wall of a stucco house is a different condtion than an interior wall with gyp board on both sides, because of the 1" cement plaster (stucco) finish.

And like that. The difficulty in calculating specific conditions is way beyond even the computer programs. They do not take into account doors and windows, and different wall conditions. For instance, a wall with a door in it is a different acoustic condition than one without.

It is useful to consider the listening room as an acoustic chamber due its significant affect on the sound energy introduced into by the playback system. But the first thing learned is the limitatons of ones ability to control those conditions with treatments and devices.

How is this formula affected by lets open french doors in a study to a larger space or a door opening into a hallway. I am interested in your comments regarding lowest frequency that a room can accomodate. I hadn't consisdered that before but at the extremes at small and big it seems a quite apparent truism-- just not sure how an 11x 10 room with doors open versus an 11x 10 room with a door closed would vary with regards to calculation of lowest frequency would accomodate considerations...

Please teach me on this... I am all ears....

565 is half the speed of sound.

The formula is simplified to obtain the lowest frequency a given acoustic chamber (room) can accomodate. Therefore, dividing the longest dimension of a chamber into 1/2 the speed of sound gives that frequency.

BTW, it reflecting back completes its full wave length. You can see that a lower frequency reflecting back will not complete the length of its cycle, thereby causing acoustic anomolies in the space that distorts all other frequencies in the chamber.

So the worst thing you can for accuracy in playback is use speakers that extend bass frequencies beyond the room's capability to accomodate them. The resulting low frequency pressue zones are almost impossible to deal with without excessive room treatment devices that are very costly, and tend to deaden the room, as well as create distasteful aesthics.

See: 'Master Handbook of Acoustics' (Everet) available in paperback.

In setting up speakers measure from the center of the drivers.

A rule of thumb is: many setups tend to end up with drivers located on a diagonal of the room. So it may be a good place to start. Draw an imaginary line from corner to corner of room, and notice, as you pull the speakers into the room they get closer together. Or conversly, as they move closer to the wall behind, they get further apart.

But unless the room is square, the side distance is never equal to the distance of the wall behind. This aids in spreading room modes so that fewer stack upon each other creating high pressure zone anomolies for specific frequencies.

Include the ideal critera of a unilateral triangle of 8'. That is, listener to speaker = 8', and speaker to speaker also = 8'. At least for critial listening.

However the width of my room is only 12', so to get some distance from side walls I have to use 7'. That puts the center of the drivers 30" from side walls: considered a minimum.

When the speakers are only a couple feet from side walls, try a device at the reflection location from speaker to lstener. I tape a mirror on a side wall, move it around until the image of the speaker appears in the mirror from the listening position. That is the spot. You can then use smallest possible devices since it is so accuratly located. A 2' square should suffice, and no danger of deadening the room.

Experiment with degrees of absorbtion of the device relative to the sense of space in the soundstage (use what is handy while experimenting: a pillow against the wall on a table, folded blanket, towels, a piece of clothing on a hanger, etc.). Or when there is a an abundance of absorbive pieces in the room, like much overstuffed furniture, etc., you may want to use diffusive devices instead: like a shelving unit. Anything to diffract the direct reflection from driver to listener, while not deadening the room further.

Coordinate this with toe-in of the speakers. I have found with box speakers (the worst design for room acoustics) a toe in of about 7 degrees is a good balance: avoiding exessive direct side reflections with width of soundstage (space). Pointing them directly at listener will offer the greater focus, but at the expense of space.

The issue with direct reflections of sound from side walls, floor, and ceiling, is the sound energy arrives slightly delayed than the direct sound from the drivers.

It can be more practical to treat the side walls than the floor or ceiling. However it is usually convenient to place a throw rug on floors without carpeting to aid the process.

With full range speaker, the best results in setup can be obtained by locating the woofers according to: the LINKS link at http://www.linkwitzlab.com scroll down to 'Subwoofers: Optimum number and location', then to 'Getting the bass right' sublink.

Real results can be obtained from these efforts that will far outweigh any from top end gear, or cables and tweaks (which can be marginal at best, to non existant at worst).

Mine are 3 feet from back wall, 6-7 feet apart with a 15 degree toe in or so in a 19 x 12 room with 9 foot ceiling for now ( moving this month). Carpet but some reflective surfaces with miniblinds and foyer tile floor ( small area). No complaints about the sound here. Sounds great.

I own the 5.0 monitors, but auditioned a broken in pair of 5.3's in my room which is very similar to yours. I had them out from the back wall ~4-5 feet and they sounded pretty good, not really boomy. If you have a chance at them, the 6.3's are better balanced than the 5.3's.

Chris

Didactically, what is the 565 you mentioned? I'm learning also. Thanks.

Thanks. I have a very basic question. In deciding on placement, should I measure from the middle of the speaker, the front, the back or what? Thanks again,

TLH

Didactically-NICE ANSWER!!!!!!!!!!!

565 divided by 15 = 37, the lowest frequency the room can handle. The speakers go to 30hz, so it is likely, if the source material is not boomy bass heavy, that your setup is too much in the corners (the worst possible place for accurate bass response).

Also, walk around the room to hear if you are just sitting in a high pressure room mode. Do not sit against the rear wall, but a couple feet into the room at least. If speakers are 30" in from the head wall, and you sit the same from the rear, gives you approx. 7' from speakers. Perhaps a 7' unilateral triange is best anyway. 8 at most.

BTW 3' from side wall on a 15' wall puts them 9' apart. Why so much. If they have a first order crossover, the recommended seperation is 8', if not even less (6-7')

Then try moving them a foot or two at time and see what happens.

This is price you pay for enclosed cabinet speakers. The dipole designs do not create these problems. I am a little surprised you get boomy bass with 2-5" woofers.
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Tell me more.

You can ask Soliloquy directly, but they told me that the degree of toe-in will effect the bass response of their speakers. And I found this to be true. I settled on approximately 10-15% of toe-in. I also had the speakers at least 2.5 feet from the back wall, measured to the back of the speaker. Are yours broken in? I'm guessing that your description of 'boomy' means that they are. The Soliloquy's don't sound well balanced until they have at least a few hundred hours on them. Five hundred is where they really open up.

It sounds like you might want to do some room treatment as well, but obviously I'm not familiar with your specifics--and I'm not an expert in that regard.

All the best,
Howard