Just look at the measurements of their tweeter/midrange arrangements (I know it’s the 5F, but the top configuration is the same). https://www.stereophile.com/content/paradigm-persona-5f-loudspeaker-measurementsThese speakers are 5db up, and climbing, above 6KHz. Someone on another forum said that If you suffer high frq. hearing loss, that may not be a problem for you. But if you can still hear, and a Persona configuration didn’t sound bright and brittle to you it basically “means that something was not matched correctly” 😉 |
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Interesting most Magico demos speakers sound boring."
You didn't use to think that when you worked for SBS |
Man, this is the funniest post I have ever read. I literally laughed so hard my wife came to see if I am ok.
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Its not a "suck out" its how a tweeter should behave, just look at the lateral response and see how smooth it is in comparison to the Persona trainwreck response. No room treatment will fix that.
But really, I am not going to argue with you on measurements, you clearly have no idea what you are looking at. |
Yes, mheinze ... your ears are much more sophisticated than mine or others who prefer other speakers At least his impressions correlate to the concept (Digitized signal playing through a Class D amplifier up to 400Hz, right into the middle of the midrange, tilted highs, etc.), and he talks about current models, not products that have been discontinued years ago (Magico’s M5 has been discontinued for more than a decade). |
@nabcs
Hate to break it to you; your speakers are DSP up to 400Hz.
From The Persona spec page:“…(two front-firing, two rear-firing). Each woofer pair is powered by a separate DSP-controlled 700 W RMS”.
Of course, why would you know, even their top seller/promoter didn’t bother to learn how they actually work.
Also, 3rd order XO at 400Hz means you are only 18db down at 800Hz, etc. Most of your midrange is overlapping with a delayed DSP signal (rolling off, but still audible). No wonder these speakers sound as “annoying” as they do. |
From The Persona spec page:“…(two front-firing, two rear-firing). Each woofer pair is powered by a separate DSP-controlled 700 W RMS”.
Which fact did I get wrong (If you understood how these speakers function, you would realize that its the only way this concept can work)?
I wounder if you are really that misinformed...
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@nabcs
It is not about the “correction,” it about the FACT that the entire signal is DSP-controlled up to 400Hz (volume, XO, individual drivers correction, augmentation, etc.).
Both you and your dealer just don’t understand how these speakers work.
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400Hz, is not subwoofer territories, not even in Portugal ;)
And yes, it will be unacceptable.
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@audiotroy
Read Paradigm literature, why are you arguing with me, argue with them.
As their dealer, you should know how their speakers work. |
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@nabcs25
as sometimes some geniuses appear and call into question a team of engineers Although I welcome the compliment, it does not take a genius to grasp how sketchy this concept is (Although, it does look like some do have a problem with facts, and understanding the basics here). Also, if you don’t think engineers can (more like will) screw up, I heard Chernobyl is for sale, and you can fly there cheap too, on a Boeing 737 Max, you might want to have a look 😉 |
So now knowledgeable and informed is consider arrogance? Where did I hear that before? Are you a politician??
BTW, since we seem to have a communication problem, allow me to be clear, I was talking about you and your champion dealer, not Paradigm. I am sure they know what they are doing; they just don't care how it sounds.
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Speaker cables, power cables, etc do make a difference.
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Propaganda.
I was rather taken by the “screens” on the drivers. No wonder they sound so etched. Beryllium midrange will be very hard to tame, looks to me like they tried to do that with the screens that is blocking a big part of the sound. Why would you want to have such a thing in front of what is supposed to be a remarkable driver (Sorry, not buying the phase “lens” BS, it makes no sense to a thinking mind). Probably an afterthought…
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@smodtactical maybe a smoother amp like MC601 monos would soften the sound and bring a great musicality to the 9H ? Sure, whatever works for you ;) |
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@audiotroy
Reading is indeed a strong suit of mine, and unlike you, I even understand what it is that I am reading. Oleg Bogdanov claim that using two screens in front of a tweeter will yield "improve frequency response and sound radiation pattern." Based on the horrendous measurements of this tweeter, both on and off axis, I can only wounder how bad was it before. Also note, he couldn’t claim any of that for the midrange, probably because KEF did that in their coaxial drivers 30 years ago. The use of perforated screens to "correct" nasty drivers behavior is not new. |
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@prof
+1
Although I typically disagree with you, I have to say that AG forum has become AT forum. The scary part is that some people are falling for that. I am not sure why AG is putting up with that.
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