Network Switches

Here is another one, AQ-SWITCH SE Audiophile High-End Network Switch from AQVOX. 
Dave Clark did a review on the switch with external PSU here: 

https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/the-aqvox-se-switch/

+1, @grannyring

Well said. Even though we have come a long way in last 4-5 years, we are still finding ways to improve the digital streaming experience. I get a good laugh from folks who can’t seem to think beyond 1’s and 0’s and bits are bits analogy. 

I am also considering the SoTM switch, did you go with base switch or the one with the internal clock? On another note, are you going to consider Phoenix USB reclocker for your Zenith MK3? 

mike2019,

Once you figure out the Amplifiers, speakers, DAC’s etc, come back for further education on streaming, network switches and Ethernet cables. You have a long way to go but you’re on a right path.

@audionoobie, @jnorris2005 and @ cakyol

Do you guys stream music, if so would you please share your streaming setup? And does any one of you use Vinyl as prime source of listening? 

+2, steakster. 

@mike2019,

Just the home setup please. 

“You are unlikely to find anybody with more experience in networking than me”

@mike2019,

Care to enlighten us with your streaming setup so we can understand where you coming from?

“I am sorry but you just continue to show your complete lack of knowledge regarding digital audio. Mine is very extensive”.

People with inflated sense of their own importance, a deep need for excessive attention and admiration...isn’t there a word to describe this kind of personality disorder? 

“There is no way on earth that any of my video or audio can be improved by network equipment or cables........ none”

@mike2019,

Thanks for sharing but with that statement..there isn’t much to discuss further. Case closed 😉

“Looks like a gimmick.”

Judging a book by its cover....thanks for gracing us with your brief presence 😉

+1, @nonoise. 
I see that @jnorris2005 still trying to convince us with the same old analogy of signal passing through hundreds of routers, repeaters, data centers...blah blah.

It’s the same signal / data sent to each subscriber yet our experiences differs, why....because how we choose to decode that incoming signal in the comfort of our homes. What these naysayers failed to understand is this, the same identical signal or data stream sent to his or my home results in different aural experience based on our choice of electronics. In jnorris whimsical world a $5K streamer/DAC shouldn’t sound any different than $40 Google Chromecast streaming device because we are dealing with a same digital signal, basically 1’s and 0’s.

In a digital chain everything matters.

Let’s take the 4K analogy, why does X brand of TV able to display the identical 4K stream better than Y brand of TV. It’s all in implementation and how we choose to decode that incoming audio or video signal.

@jason_k2017

and ’ for the umpteenth time’....why don’t you pick up a switch and try it on your system? My gosh, even if we say adding a switch made an audible difference, does that guarantees you will hear the same improvements @grannyring and others have heard in their system.

Why this is so difficult for you to understand everyone’s system and hearing capabilities are not the same. You may hear improvements or you may not. At least by trying you will put this to rest.

@nonoise,

Thanks for posting a link for the switch and steering back this thread on track 😉

@thyname - I am not at all surprised by the overwhelming response to EtherRegen. 

I agree with Al....I did not find any technical flaws with the review either. Based on the measurements alone, the reviewer makes a very compelling argument about the noise and jitter present or its non-existence in a Ethernet signal.

I try not to ‘condemn’ a component unless I had a first hand experience with it. Those of you found etherREGEN worth some degree of improvement in your setup, continue to enjoy! 

I second the recommendation on Ethernet cables between these two components, 

>Silent Angel - Bonn N8 Audio Grade Network Switch
>Cat 6 Ethernet cable (3 feet) ⬅️
>Antipodes DX3 Server
>Cat 6 Ethernet cable (3 feet) ⬅️
>Metrum Ambre Roon endpoint

@david_ten

Thanks for sharing. Looks like everyone involved with streaming trying to come up with their own version of ‘audiophile’ switches. Network Acoustics is also coming out with a Ethernet switch next month.

“Wow! The TotalDac switch is very expensive”

@thyname

It’s in-line with their rest of the components (streamer, DAC, PS) and another notch in the grand scheme of those going for ‘pyramid’ appearance.

What can I say, for some folks the idea of a audiophile switch can be quite contentious 😂…..I say keep them coming!

Nordost is bringing a Ethernet switch called QNET this spring, expected retail $3200.

https://www.nordost.com/qrt/qnet-network-switch.php

Adding another switch to the thread, M12 Switch Gold by Telegartner. 

https://ce96719c-7756-4949-a157-31e7143a322d.filesusr.com/ugd/6ddf08_89126a8befa14422a121dcb26edcb73...

Speaking of network switches, @david_ten is spot on!

“Think of it as a serious isolation step between a typically noisy router and your Antipodes. If configured, you can also separate your noisy/dirty components from your audio focused ones.”

I brought in M12 Switch recently, while I am still evaluating this ‘revolutionary’ product, my initial impressions are nothing short of amazement. It has elevated my streaming system to whole another level. Nope, I am not exaggerating :-)

@grannyring,

We shared the same approach to ‘cleanse’ our home network by employing EE Switch 8 combined with Network Acoustics ENO cabling and Ethernet filter. And they have worked beautifully and effectively.

So what prompted the change? I have been exploring streamer / DAC’s that have adopted to latest i2S protocol (i.e. components supporting uncompressed audio over IP Network) thus eliminating the need to rely on aging USB/AES/SPDIF protocols. You may read about my new digital components in virtual system page,

https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/9445

Back to the topic on hand, a high performance switch like M12 made perfect sense since my new DAC/streamer relies heavily on the robustness of home network. The difference in performance between the two setups (EE8 w/ENO & M12) were far from marginal to fully justify the 3x cost of M12. With M12, everything is more spacious, more energy and openness; you’re certainly more engaged and emotionally connected to your music. The build quality of M12 is first rate (and exquisite) not to mention very robust M12 X-Coded connectors.

My evaluation is not complete as I’m bringing in JCAT LPS along with Signature LAN Cable that will go between M12 switch and Merging +player. I am hoping to retain the stock Telegärtner M12 X-coded/MFP8 IE GOLD LAN Cable between the router and M12 switch, which is quite excellent unless I can justify the 2nd JCAT Signature LAN cable :-)

https://jcat.eu/product/optimo-3-duo/
https://jcat.eu/product/signature-lan-cable-gold-m12-x/

@treebeard1, 

I highly recommend Supra CAT-8 LAN cable over WireWorld. This is a great sounding cable for the money. Send a message to the seller for 0.5m and he will be happy to oblige. 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Supra-CAT-8-ETHERNET-cable-1-meter-Made-In-Sweden-THE-BEST-FOR-NETWORK-AUDI...

Great advice from @thyname, that’s the only way to know what a high end (expensive) switch brings to the party! 

“RenoLabs switch has amazing build quality, would fit $3k plus category. ”

The only way to know how Reno switch ($650) stacks against Innuos switch is by trying it in your system. Otherwise, it just a pure speculation on your part. Going from Reno to Uptone may yield ‘lateral’ improvements or different flavor, if any. I say this from my experience by trying switches, filters priced under $1K in my system.

I am way passed some of these short term bandaid solutions :-)

“I’ve seen many reviews of other switches also claiming more natural sound from systems.”

@sns,

Of course, they all claim to do so! But to what degree, the only way to find out is by trying them out in your system. The noise is the #1 issue in any audio signal path. You lower or eliminate the noise and music starts to sound natural as possible. As I said before, the Telegartner M12 switch does a exemplary job of removing digital grunge and it does so transparently but at much larger scale than my previous reference, i.e. English Electric 8 switch and ENO Filter.

In this hobby, most of us are striving to attain the next ‘level’ performance; so implementing a switch like M12 was the next logical step in my holistic approach of how my system going to sound when i cue up my music. In my system, the M12 switch was the game changer and a very worthy stable mate for my digital front end.

Good luck with your journey, hope you find your ultimate Switch soon :-)

^^^^I hate to break it you, there are no absolutes in audio. 

Hi-Fi+ latest review on Network Acoustics ENO, 

https://hifiplus.com/articles/network-acoustics-eno-ethernet-filter-and-streaming-cable/?goal=0_ff6d...

@richruss,

I concur with your assessment and importance of using a high quality power supply with Ethernet switch. Would you please share which network switch you’re using and any other filters in your setup?

@david_ten

Agreed, high quality DC cables are equally important in grand scheme of things. I am quite pleased with my JCAT LPS and DC cables powering my Telegartner M12 Ethernet switch.

“Is there a better way for digital playback…..

@glory

As you know better is subjective and any given component must gel (synergy) with rest of your system for one to say, I prefer the brand X better than brand Y. I found a component last year that not only simplified my digital streaming but also transcended my existing digital front end (EMM Labs DA2 / Aurender N20). I suggest you to look into Merging Technologies +player. It’s a DAC/Roon player/Preamp, all in one box. No external component needed to run a Roon core. All you need is one high quality LAN cable, which you already own.

BTW, I am quite intrigued by your Manger S1 speakers, what made you decide to go with powered speakers over passive ones in Manger speaker line up? 

 

@david_ten

Thanks for the info. I was looking forward to the review of SW-8 but after learning about reviewer pedestrian streaming setup, I honestly don’t care what he says. No wonder he’s sour on cloud based streaming in his main rig…LOL!

On another note, Melco has up their game on S10 Ethernet switch by introducing their own external power supply.
https://melco-audio.com/s10/

“I have compared it to other much more expensive switches and I think most of these high end switches are way overpriced.”

@macdude

Would you please elaborate on your experience with other switches? I would love to hear what switches you’ve tried in your system. Agreed on passive grounding, I’m also using dedicated ground boxes for ethernet router and switch.

@macdude 

I don’t necessarily concur with ‘double the value part’ but a high quality Ethernet switch in an ultra resolution system definitely enhances the performance of a purpose built audio streamer or server. Its impact is easily audible and addictive. 

Melco has up their game on the entry level switch by adding a robust power supply and new chassis, 

https://melco-audio.com/s10/?amp=1

Taiko is now taking pre-orders on their much awaited network switch. The switch comes with 2SFP + ports, either RJ45 or Fiber. It appears Pre-order is only available for existing Taiko Extreme owners.

It appears Taiko prefers RJ45 over Fiber with their switch. 

“I also prefer RJ45 for the switch. The SFP fiber modules consume more power, more power = higher noise. Fiber isolation is irrelevant with this switch.”

 

Telegartner coming out with a ‘Premium’ switch dubbed as Platinum,

https://telegaertner.co.jp/product/audio_products/m12_switch_premum.html

Wait, there is more, a QSA modified QNAP WiFi router, 

https://www.tweekgeek.com/qsa-wifi-router/

QSA Silver and Gold version Network switches are here, 90 days return policy! 

https://www.tweekgeek.com/audiophile-network-switch-gold-version/