Dear Steve, Dear friends: There is a misconception about step-up transformers and that´s why ( like Doug says ) exist differents opinions.
No one in his healthy judgement ( sorry Doug ) can " love " them and if he do that confirm the no know-how about.
The SUT is an old patch for bad SS phonopreamps designs and for the inherent limitations on tube phonopreamps for handle low output MC cartridges. It is a " chip solution to a complex problem ".
Any SUT has many inherent disadvantages like: distortions generated at the core ( it does not matters if is: air core ), heavy phase discharge ( landslide ), high apt to take hum, the wide zone ( band ) can't go down to DC, severe roll-off at high and low frecuencies, the reactive impedance on the SUT is incompatible with the cartridge impedance: this cause that we never could have flat frecuency response when we are using SUT, this mismatch between the impedances promote that the signal that pass through any SUT will be equalized ( yes, exactly like the problems between tube amplifier and loudspeakers because of those impedances ).
Any time with any of you we can make the tests and prove all those disadvantages and others like the additional cables that you have to use, additional connectors, the SUT is an additional ( filter ) link in the analog audio chain: How can you love it? !!!!!!!!!!!
I want to let clear that there is no single advantage, in any way, using SUT's, any of them: it does not matters their design or price.
The SUT always be a : wrong PATCH.
Doug, I don't hate them because I don't have to use them. You like many others peoples have to tolerate them because you choose to handle a low output MC cartridge through a tube technology that preclude ( by design ) the use of low output MC cartridges.
Steve, till today: active amplification is the right way to go.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Joe: The best you can do with your Allaerts is through an active gain stage: you don't have to worry about DC offset. Only if the phonopreamp was or has a faulty stage.
Great cartridge: congratulations !!!!!
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear friends: The SUT issue is a extremly critical one and many of you prefer to go " around " like the ostrich that " hide the head " for nobody see it.
If you really cares about music then take a look: any one of us have a special love for music and music reproduction at home. We all prefer analog over digital. I think that all of us are looking for the best quality sound reproduction from a LP's. That's why we invert a lot of money and a lot of time with our analog rig: from a MMF-7 to a Rockport/Walker TT, from a Shure V to an Allaerts or Koetsu cartridges, from Rega RB 300 to Air Tangent tonearms, and the like. We take our time setting our analog rig. VTA on each LP, VTF, overhang, Azymuth, clamps, plataforms, etc, etc.
We do all those things because we want that the signal that goes through our phonopreamp will be the purer one with out or minimal degradation and what happen when that " be loved " signal has to be amplified ? , that that signal from a low output MC cartridge has to pass for a SUT that do a severe/heavy degradation to the original signal: this is unfair to you that invert thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours for that signal goes through a piece of wires ( tha's is what is a SUT ) that you buy it for a couple of coins.
Somebody " take our hair " about SUT's. You and any one deserves in any way the terrible job that the SUT is making with your quality music sound reproduction.
As I already told about, the SUT is a Patch a very bad one. There is no justification for that today any one of you still use any SUT, it does not matters design or price.
There is no synergy between low output MC cartridges and tube phono preamps and less than that there is no synergy between SUT's and quality music sound reproduction.
The problem is not on your phono preamp the problem is in that you buy the wrong cartridge for your phono preamp. Your phono preamp is for high output MC cartridges and MM cartridges. I already told in other thread: the MM cartridges are really great performers that in many ways put on shame many of the big names low output MC cartridges: Grado, Rega, Ortofon, Clearaudio, Linn, Roksan, etc, etc. You have to try because if you insist in the SUT use then you never know what is recorded on the LP.
Now if you want to go for the low output MC cartridges then you have to go for phono preamps that can handle it with out SUT: Boulder, Rowland, Ayre, FM Acoustics, Mark Levinson, Krell, Halcro, Classe, Sutherland, The Groove and the like, there is no other options and this is only if you care about music and cares about the quality music sound reproduction through an audio system at home.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Phil, very educational post.
Pauly: +++++ " So how active amplification device, which will contain 1.) many resistors, 2.) many capacitors, 3.) many transistors and/or vacuum tubes, 4.) 30db (or more) of negative feedback (transistor phono), 5.) many different wires (or god forbid, pc boards!), 6.) many solder points, 7) a power supply (!!!!!) 8.) " +++++
You really don't know nothing about the design of a phono preamp: all phono stages ( with or with out SUT's ) already have the gain stages, the SUT is an additional stage !!!!.
+++++ " Having recently replaced a stepped attenuator (i.e. discrete resistor) with a transformer-based attenuator in my pre-amp, it is glaringly obvious that a step-up introduces less coloration than even a single high quality resistor. " +++++
You are really ignorant about. I can't lost my time with people like you that " open the mouth " only because you have it. Sorry, no bad feelings.
Styx: +++++ " . Besides, those before mentioned issues are all theoretical, which are insignificant. What matters is wether you like the sound or not. +++++ "
First those issues are not theoretical: are facts. Second : are not insinificants, are really a danger for the music signal.
If you think that what matters is wether you like or not, then we are talking about different things: I'm talking about quality music sound reproduction, can you understand this statement?
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear friends: I'm not against the SUT " per se ", I'm against what the SUT makes to the cartridge signal: heavy degradation.
I like many of you used the SUT for many years till I discovery that the best SUT is NO SUT. I already try severals SUT's and all of them do a severe degradation to the cartridge signal.
Maybe some of you can think that an Audio NOte Kondo or Expressive Technologies SUT's don't have any problem: wrong, all SUT's have the same problems and all of them degraded the cartridge signal.
We have to understand that the low output MC cartridges was not build " thinking " in a low gain phonopreamps ( tube or SS ). The low gain phonopreamps like yours is only for CD, high output MC and MM cartridges ( btw: Music Maker, Sumiko and Audio Technica have great cartridges too ).
Tha's why I can tell you that if you have a low gain phono stage with a low output MC cartridge: you choose the wrong cartridge to go. For any one can enjoy and discover ( really enjoy ) the " magic " quality sound reproduction of a low output MC cartridge any one needs a high-gain phono preamp, with out any PATCH ( external/internal SUT/Autoformer. With out any mis-match between cartridge impedance and SUT that equalized the cartridge signal, always. ) ) no question about, period. There are many options of high gain phono preamps out there including the CTC one.
When you are using a low output MC cartridge with a low gain phono preamp it is like if you want to scale the Everest in a Ferrari Testa Rosa or like you want to swim in the sea dressed with a Tuxedo instead of a swimwear. Sure you can to swim dressed on a Tuxedo but: Imagine that!!! That's what you have on your audio system, it does not matters if your audio systems cost 10K or 500K.
All things in the music/audio world have their specific place. Some body tell us that can change it with a terrible TWO COINS PATCH, that's is unfair for you for us and for your and us whole investment.
Of course if you really don't care about the music you can swim with a Tuxedo. No problem at all.
Styx, Phil and Doug: I think that you have a misconception about audio noise generated on a SUT or any other audio device. There a re audible and non-audible noises, this ones are the must critical because these noises modulated the signal and put heavy colorations on it. The SUT is terrible in this kind of problem. You don't hear the noise as a noise you hear it as an additional colorations in the cartridge signal. Stay away.
Khrys: You have a great and very serious audio system: a " gold " system ". Don't show the " cooper " on you, I think that you are better much better person that your post.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Pauly: +++++ " flawed opinions " +++++
Which ones and why, where or how are flawed?
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Doug: Now, I think that you can understand the why's of our ZYX differences in opinions: you like many other " likes to swim full dress on Tuxedo ". Doug this statement is in good shape: please no bad feelings. I think Larry too and the transformer coupled phonopreamp of Patrick is the same. Unfortunatelly all of you never know for sure which is the real performance of the ZYX cartridges till you have the right phonopreamp.
regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Pauly: +++++ " - more speed, more detail, more sparkle. " +++++
I know for sure that that is what you are hearing and you are right in what you are hearing.
Pauly this is a form in what the distortions tell you " I'm here ". That sparkle is not a better quality sound: it is distortion. It is not easy to explain here about because the best way to do it is making some change in our audio system ( where we are sure there will be less distortion ) and hear what happen with that change that is supposed has less distortion.
This is something that I learn many years ago when I change a tonearm interconect cable for something better: what I hear that time?: less sparkle and " less high frecuencies ", even the loudness in the volumen goes down ( at least I percivied like the volumen goes down ). I was very disapointed about and I return to the old cable that give me more " speed, clarity and sparkle ". One week later I return to the better cable and I understand what happen: less distortion. From that day I always know , speaking of distortions, when any change I do was for the better or worse. From that day I don't have to do any meausure to be sure about and if I take the meausure this one confirm what I'm hearing. Of course that's don't mean that if we have a dull sound in our system and after we do some change and with that change the sound is no any more dull but open and shining, that this is because there are more distortions: no, we have to have a lot of experience about to know for sure when what we are hearing are : distortions.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul. |
Dear Doug: I don't have any campaign against ZYX and it is not true that " no one else seems to share " about ( this is only one thread about: http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1127562669&read&3&4&) . You were in some other thread were some people talk about the ZYx problems speacially at the low bass: if I can remember one of that threads Larry was extremly angry, in that thread some one gives ( other than me ) an opinion of those problems.
Btw, I never said that the ZYX cartridges are bad cartridges: I said that are good cartridges that have problems at the extreme of the frecuency range ( specially at the bottom end ), that there are not the best out there and that if in their next generation those problems will be fixed then I buy it. That's all. There is no campaign about.
As you know I have a special passion for the music and for the analog sound reproduction of the music. I own what I own on cartridges/tonearms because that passion: do you think that if the ZYX cartridges were up to the task ( my targets/music priorities ) I don't have a single one?. As I told you I'm waiting for a better ZYX performance, till that day I shall give my advise to other people to look other better performer cartridges that do a better job than the ZYX.
I know for sure that what you hear at your system is what you already post about ZYX cartridges. I only differ from your opinion because in your system you can't hear the ZYX bass problems: the SUT put a veil about and the frecuency range on your system can't handle in a clean way that range of frecuency. The problem is not only the phonopreamp, at this´performance cartridge level it is important too the resolution over the frecuency range of the audio system ( yours, mine, or any one ) and only in a similar audio system conditions we really can hear the cartridge performance and talk about in the " same language ". Right now we are talking on a subject with differents audio systems: it is almost imposible to share a specific global agreement.
Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul |
