@amir_asr
I have plenty of this data. It falls in these categories:
having plenty of data is like having lots of shoes. You know, like women, who have lots of shoes? is each pair of shoes the right size? Can it match with what she's wearing etc. So having lots of shoes or lots of data are both meaningless unless we can find common ground and repeatable metrics of performance.
1. Company never bothered to make any measurements. You can count on this being the reason in just about any audio tweaks (cables, etc.). I know this because they are often surprised by my measurements. But when I ask them for theirs, they have none.
Okay... so a multi-million dollar company that can afford to take measurements decided not to. The reason for non-sense products in audio is gullible customers; namely non-technical/inexperienced audiophiles. The exuctives and folks in marketing know this - so they produce these products with the intent of selling them for healthy profits! Who are you to ask for product data from companies? Unless of course you have intent to purchase - for example, asking about rated ouput power for a headphone amplifier in mW into a certain number of ohms.
2. They make very rudimentary measurements often using obsolete audio analyzers that don't remotely present the deep dive that I provide in ASR reviews. One of the main reasons for this is the cost of instrumentation. A proper audio analyzer sets you back US $30,000. A proper speaker measurement requires spending $2K to get measurements in anechoic ichamber or buying $100,000 Klippel NFS that I have.
Have you visted manufacturing facilities and corporate/engineering offices to confirm these supposed findings? I would think that any popular or even remotely successful audio manufacturer has more money than you, so being able to afford an audio analyzer is likely not a hurdle. Your $100k Klippel costs as much as a half-decent Porsche. There are better machines out there. If there's so much bad-measuring gear out there, why are those brands so popular and respected?! for example, Luxman and Accuphase.
3. They have the right measurements but don't want to publish them. Harman as noted falls in this category with their speakers. Their marketing department thinks it will be "confusing" to people if they publish detailed measurements. Engineers and product planners disagree and leak it in forums and such. So the information is there but not in product pages.
If a manufacturer is proud of their work, they will want others to notice. I've worked with a lot of clients before; some in industrial manufacturing; won't get in to details. However, important information is shared if we ask for it. You cannot be sure of what someone else is thinking (not wanting to publish it) this is merely a correlation you are creating that is otherwise invalid. Of course employees disagree at every company...but that does not mean the end result of their work was an inferior product.
Note that even if you had measurements on cables for example, they would be useless. I don't know about you but I don't listen to cables. Or power conditioners. Or AC cables. I listen to the output of my audio system. You would think if these things change the output of your system, these companies would be anxious to show them in measurements. Or failing that, using controlled listening tests. You get neither.
Small amounts of current or voltage variation can influence how well an audio component performs. Different types of metal - copper, silver, CCAW wire can impact sound quality. Why be so opinionated, as though only you are right?! I'm just stating what I believe is true based on experience.
Instead, companies talk about such things as "lower noise," "EMI," "Jitter," yet no measurements are shown. Instead, some theories are put forward that sound good to consumers. Sadly some audiophiles buy into these unproven claims so companies think "life is good so why bother."
Again, who cares?!
The industry is transforming though because if they don't measure, then I might. :) Smart company would want to get ahead of the game and make their own measurements. And offer them. Schiit for example when through this major change from using obsolete measurement gear to what I have now. Reports are now released with every new product.
So you are the audio measurement god and all companies must yield before you so that you can measure their electronics and rank them on your website? Who cares what they use. Does it sound good? That's what really matters.
Audiophiles have gotten quite a bit more educated and are driving this change. I routinely hear from companies saying people want me to measure their gear before they buy them.
Where on earth are you reaching this conclusion from: "Audiophiles have gotten quite a bit more educated and are driving this change." Nah, I don't think so. Every audio ethusiast I know visits different audio shops, takes notes, and compares/contrasts audio gear based on listening by themselves and with a friend or their Wife. Because that same system would be in their house if they spent their money and bought it. I don't think audiophiles are flocking to your site like seagulls for french fries..lol
Furthermore, the audio industry as a whole has yet to adapt to viewing audio measurements as all important. If such were the case, published textbooks would have been established as a gold standard hailing your set of audio measurements as supreme. Yet, that has obviously not occured, nor will it ever.
I hope every audiophile is supportive of more information than less and will push the industry to provide comparable and reliable information about their products.
Tell me what you think the product does (product description) and I will tell you if it meets those standards/fills that purpose. That is truly all a prospective buyer needs to know. Good enough or optimal for them, then they can buy what they want and be happy. End of story.
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@coralkong
lol
The Water Horse: Legend of the Deep
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The Water Horse: Legend of the Deep
LOL The Water Horse has hatched from a new egg!! Or perhaps a life story?!
From 0:44 onwards... the manufacturer, the dealer, the buyer, and the Water Horse!
"there can be only one in the world at a time."
Sounds about right!! Have a good laugh guys!!
@amir_asr Folks...If anything he becomes far too triggered by differences in viewpoints. Good God. This is the real world...where people may disagree about particular subject matter. How you construct your retorts is rather distasteful. Talking about heartburn, being emotional, fortune cookies, folklore, heaven, and even "darkness." Maybe AudioQuest named their cable - Mythical Creature after you!
Writing about what audio manufacturers don’t do - such as them not using up to date audio measurement equipment is none of your business. How they produce audio electronics is up to the qualified, experienced, and degreed employees who work at these companies, not you. Same with the audio electronics from otherwise good companies that you constantly bash. Folks in pro audio, such as legends like Ray Staff and Steve Hoffman would run circles around you in terms of real technical audio knowledge...despite the fact that you are a large Water Horse.
"You can have a big mouth, but don’t try to bite off more than you can chew. "
- Above is what your fortune cookie says.
You constantly trash-talk and it gets on people’s nerves. This is why you have been banned on so many different audio forums. Want me to share old-skool screen captures?! You do the same thing every single time...grow up and learn to be mature. Especially at your age. This proves that age alone is not an indicator of wisdom, emotional intelligence, or overall intellectual capacity.
You are always trying to impose your personal beliefs and supposed expertise on audiophiles or anyone interested in the hobby...guess what?! Nobody really cares!
Back to audio manufacturers - Do you run their companies? Do you make it possible for their employees to put food on the table by providing them an income? No. One thing you are incredibly good at is becoming a laughing stock on audio forums. You don’t welcome 3rd party valdiation of your testing; Yet I have seen posts on numerous forums where experts have proven your measurements were done incorrectly.
Like Paul McGowan said, he wishes you would contribute to this hobby, rather than be a thorn on its side.
So Water Horse, I summon you back to the waters..away from the land...leave audio enthusiasts, pro audio folks, and audiophiles alone. Your only fanbase are the minions on ASR. Eventually, they too shall become believers in listening as the ultimate test. What will you do then?!
Water Horse says: BHAAAHHA !!!
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@kenjit
bolderdash...all of the above.
Why is he trying to "expose the truth about high-end audio?" who exactly does that benefit? How do you know that costly audio products (in that particular price range) are scams?!
He is sharing what he believes to be objective data that does not translate in to real-world performance...we all know that gear he praises so often costs pennies on the dollar to build..v-chip computer-grade capacitors, OP amps, no discrete components or fuses, etc.
And you know this...how?! You are actually suggesting that well-known or reputable or popular audio brands do not employ qualified employees? How dare you! The ASR group?!! never heard of it. ASR is not like JEDEC: stop dreaming...
Really? You, Admin and friends have enfeebled their minds and made them believe that only ASR is right?! Well good then, because who cares.
The concept here is...costly = scam. Cheap = good. Measurements = everything.
Right?!
That’s like saying michelin star restaurants are a scam, high-end cars are a scam, luxury housing is scam, high-end computers are a scam, etc.
Most importantly, why on earth do you and Amir care so much about what others believe? Like my grandfather used to say..LIVE AND LET LIVE.
Let others live how they want to without interferring in their lives.Let folks in this audio hobby spend their money on what they want...
If you change someone’s mind...what is in it for you?
In no other industry does such a person or community exist...one who tries with such effort (yet ultimately futile attempts) to convince the masses that their train of thought and beliefs are misguided or just plain wrong. With no one else do we argue about "being objective" vs being "subjective." We all require the use of descriptive language to communicate to others our listening impressions. That is not difficult to understand.
How much did Amir pay you to post for him?
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@kenjit
You, Amir, your site admin, and others who are tasked with this pursuit are not the Power Rangers, Marvel/DC Superheros, Saints, Pastors, or the defends of this audio industry. Nobody asked you to take on such a responsibility and become a "gatekeeper of truth" for everyone in this audio hobby. Like I said before the "ASR group" LOL is not a certified or universally respected standards organization. You and team do not create and enforce standards for ANYTHING AT ALL with audio electronics.
The scare tactic is merely measurements...which have caused an uproar from the truly enlightened and intelligent in this hobby who know they are not all-important (measurements alone) and trying to bait manufacutrers in to producing better-measuring audio gear...since now they know Amir and team will be on their radar; trying to bash their company and efforts.
Instead, all of you are self-proclaimed gurus who have exasperated existing problems in the audio industry as a whole to unanticipated heights!
ASR is powerless to influence the highest ranks of this industry; such as the top-most Studios, wealthy audiophiles, and audio dealers. I double-dog dare Amir and team to call up a music studio in Hollywood, the UK, Japan, etc anywhere in Europe and suggest these budget products. See what happens. Once again, he will be treated like a laughing stock...
I have spoken to almost a dozen real audio dealers about ASR; and we have had many good laughs about the website and testing methods. @amir_asr Amir, you do not owe the world anything. If only you would retire for good from ASR and working in general, buy the system you want in its entirety, have a good and happy life with your real friends and family, enjoy listening to music on your own terms, and ultimately leave others alone...you would have much less stress in your life.
You are creating all kinds of dichotomies, rivaries, and conflicts between others simply because you always must interject your opinions and beleifs on the masses. Once again, I ask why? I may have found proof your collusion (at least hinting at it) with select brands you review. Want me to post it on here so everyone can see?
To be honest with you, I could not care less if you are discredited on every major platform to date...wait a minute...you already have been. I don’t give a damn about your reputation. Only your site admin, site minions, and you care about you. I don’t.
No, I do not care about destroying your reputation, but others have done it before countless times. I do not have any personal beef with you, nor do I hate you as a person. Now that’s hard to believe right? I am a well-meaning person. When you get on my nerves and keep spewing nonsense, you or anyone deserves backlash that crushes and dismantles your entire belief system, and we’ve already given you that over and over.
Someone like Gene DellaSala is already an objective eye in this industry. We do not need you @amir_asr ! Ultimately, our purchase decisions will be made spending our own money, not yours.
I shall not respond further to your minion - @kenjit whose username sounds familar when I was a member on ASR...he has gone though the ASR stadards protal and landed here...on Audiogon. Big mistake. This webiste is populated by knowledgable audiophiles and pro audio folks who know their stuff. Amir, did you actually believe that you alone possess superior knowledge in audio?! Give it up already. You will be happier and perhaps even live a longer life without all this added stress that you bring upon yourself!
So once again water horse... @amir_asr I’ll give you two options:
1) Respond to the logical retort that @kota1 has presented to you above (which you previously attacked on another discussion; stating that his software results were incorrect or inconclusive; how do you know this without actually being there in person and confirming said test results? Well you don’t. You lack a stupendous amount of creds and it shows, Amir.
You want real knowledge? Well here it goes:
RMAF15: What The Specs Don’t Tell You… And Why (from an Audio Precision Employee)
The "mad scientist" of Sony audio (someone who actually has designed audio electronics; talking about what matters).
Reach out to a Techical Director at Studio @amir_asr You would get absolutely swamped such that you, being a gigantic water horse with grandiose narcissism would drown under the waters of real objective truth in this industry.
2) Take a bow and admit you’re wrong. Rihanna - Take A Bow
No matter what you try @amir_asr , you will always be taken down by people who have more knowldedge/experience/credentials than you. Always remember that!! - And with great power, comes great responsibility. (You have lead an entire community or flock of now-minions astray on ASR). You also damage the minds of laypersons who want to explore this hobby. Once folks find out that just because an audio device produces output (that does not make it good) they will hunt you down like a bad dog and hold you accountable. Don’t make me talk to my industry connections worldwide lol ...there could be a lot of troube in store for you.
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@thyname
what are you doing? You realize you are simply giving Amir and his worshippers (what you call minions) another platform, a tool to generate even more clicks to the site they already own?
Think. Why is he posting here? Isn’t a full site he currently own, apparently most popular audio site in the entire audio world, the ASR, not sufficient for him as a platform to express his personal views fully and freely?
That doesn’t really matter. He can also get clicks from other forums, his YouTube videos, people posting ASR links on their personal blogs etc. If his site becomes more popular, then good for him. That is not something that can be stopped or prevented...because the internet is a big place!!
I responded to iron-out discrepancies...and moreover, to banish Amir from this site with strong responses for which he had no reasonable answers....therefore needing to call upon one of his supporters to speak for him.
Well alright then. We can assume that we won’t hear much from @amir_asr anymore. The water horse has set sail...to far...far..away land in the republic of ASR.
@dabel
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@kenjit
Why do you keep worshipping the ground on which Amir walks?
What on earth is wrong with you?
Seriously, how much did he pay you?
Even a beta-male simp loser has more self-respect than you. You have given up as a man and surrendered to some guy on the internet!! Hell, even though I’ve helped a lot of people in real life, they wouldn’t dare stand up for me the way you do for Amir. Although they are certainly grateful, they have their own sense of individuality and don’t yield to authority all that quickly.
I wasn’t asking you about if you saw that review or not. Now answer my question - Would you like me to post that detailed photo and explain where he went totally wrong?!
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@kenjit
Recently, Amir reviewed an IEM (in ear monitor) and the results are absolutely shocking. Shall I post a detailed photo showing a comparison on my systems page so you can show your master?!
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@kenjit
Pathetic.
@bigtwin
Sure. I get it too. Amir is keen on destroying established audio companies or anyone who doesn’t pay him for a review! Either that, or he’s just exceedingly incompetent. Perhaps even both!!
Check out my systems page for a new photo I uploaded - It showcases alarming differences in test results. Amir recently reviewed an IEM for a little over 2 grand. The folks on Head-Fi know what they’re talking about. Also consider the overblown levels and disgusting EQ Amir implements to "fix" them!! Killing off all brilliance (upper treble) and destroying what is left of the response the driver units can muster.
Hell, I think Amir would have great difficulty tuning an integrated car system stereo - with only treble, bass, and balance to set!! left to right so + or - the dB !!
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@kota1
It's actually entertaining to witness this much redundant failure. Yes, your room measures well and that makes Amir and friends jealous. No machine can compensate for all the air or reflection points in a room. I don't care if it costs 100 grand... @kenjit seriously...how much is Amir paying you to stand up for him?
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@jl35
To be honest, I'm starting to think so.
A secondary account; to defend himself. Kind of like an underground bunker. But he's throwing beanbags...not rocks.
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if only... @amir_asr had joined audiogon and tried to answer questions on the forums like everyone else, wasn’t so argumentative, and hell, even if he had the wrong answers to every question...at least we could say he tried...the key for him: "be humble."!!!
Kind of the like a kid back when I was in elementary school (like 20 years ago) who always got participant ribbons. I was a jock and a cool guy, so I tried to help him by telling the bullies to back off, and they listened to me.
The gym teacher at the time had to lie to him - telling him he got "the best ribbon" for each sport/challenge. Cool story, right?
@kenjit - I think @invalid has a question for you...
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@kenjit
Like my Uncle used to tell his brother: "Who died and made you King?"
The meaning here is simple. You shouldn't try to take on a responsibility unless someone wants you to help them. Nobody asked for ASR. A great disservice is being done to manufacturers of audio equipment. The improper reviews and measurements do not correspond to real-world performance. I have nothing against your "master" personally; however the impact he continues to have on this industry is overwhelmingly negative.
It's like if 100 people were to write a bad Google review and 1 star Glassdoor reviews for Madrona digital (Amir's company). 😃
@amir_asr
I've gone over some of what I've written to you....perhaps I've been a bit harsh. So sorry about that! Please consider how you are impacting the livelihoods of employees when you negatively review otherwise good audio gear. Poor sales figures = layoffs.
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What success?
A failed tech executive at Microsoft, worked at Sony for a while, made no meaningful contributions that stand today. No one from his generation knows who he is or what he does. He is extremely unpopular on the web and forums in general for a reason. And you know what that is...
Ask Amir to remaster a track. I get to choose. With his butchering of EQ, I can only begin to imagine how much worse his finished product would be...
Post room measurments @amir_asr or...be a man and have a real discussion. Your friend is far too helpful ....probably because he is you!!
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Hey @kenjit
Answer this:
Are you the master of yourself? Yes or no.
Don’t be a coward. It’s a simple question.
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@kenjit
I said: ASR is powerless to influence the highest ranks of this industry; such as the top-most Studios, wealthy audiophiles, and audio dealers.
Either way, if you write lousy reviews that undermine the actual capabilities of audio equipment, most people might believe it: since they are non-technical. Again, I say that you can't influence the enlightened folks who know their stuff.
I have more speakers than just the TADs. The TSM-300s were really good. TAD or any other company is not afraid of ASR.
Going up against @kota1 is a very bad idea. Are you nuts?
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@cd318
Many good points raised here.
It’s disappointing that ASR, the primary site on the entire internet that focuses on the science of audio receives so much non science based criticism.
The very point of such sites is to try to steer debate away from personal opinion towards scientific facts, isn’t it?
Didn’t we get enough opinionated nonsense from a whole host of printed journals and magazines for decades and decades?
Isn’t a little more balance something we should welcome and not resent whilst we share our audio experiences with each other?
Amir now seems to taken over the mantle as the most attacked man in audio from the late Peter Aczel who was arguing many of the same things over 20 years ago.
What good points??! From @kenjit the serf of Amir ?
How we hear is based on science. Audio textbooks are based on science. Audio textbooks on the physics of sound is science. Measurements beyond what Amir does is science. Amplifier design and choosing the right kind of solder and design topology is a science. Furthermore, ASR is not science. Human hearing sensitivity is extraordinary...despite the fact that we may not be able to hear as well as moths!!
The "opinionated nonsense" you speak of is simply descriptive language. We humans require it in our everyday lives to communicate the differences between things. Just like a food critic, not being able to describe what we are hearing (tasting) leaves everything up for a senseless debate later on.
Amir is attacked because he does the same thing on every single last forum he's ever been on! Start pointless debates bent on arguments with no merit, disagree with others, tell others they are wrong, and then share faulty measurements that further prove his inability to understand "audio science." We see all the mistakes and it's rather painful - how we arrived at a set of measurements and the tech behind it is far more important than a standard set of basic measurements...
Look inside something like a Sabaj A10h. How much do you think it really cost them to build it?! Ask yourself...Since you believe in saving money and "uncertain times." I'm sorry, the 3rd world will delve in to even more poverty since they keep having 15 kids every 2 months. Impossible I know, but they keep making that happen. Welcome to a world of overpopulation....
In closing...all counter-evidence will be ignored on ASR and the user will be banned, almost immediately. Like I said before, ASR does not welcome 3rd party validation or testing....I think Amir should send his test gear back to Audio Precision as a donation...someone with real chops can use it at home!!
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@kota1
That looks fantastic!! @amir_asr has no reasonable responses to that other than envy.
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@thespeakerdude
Seems like you have a bit of difficulty reading between the lines or accepting a congruent argument at face value.
I enjoy responding to you and others...simply because it is entertaining to do so.
You said:
per mastering92: "A failed tech executive at Microsoft"
per bio: "During my time at Microsoft, as VP of Digital Media Division, I grew to manage a division of nearly 1000 engineers, testers, marketing and business development people."
Strength in numbers at a company means hardly anything. I know business owners who have run successful businesses with only 20 to 40 employees.
And of course a VP at Microsoft would manage a larger team! Microsoft is a HUGE company...That would be no different for anyone else who landed Amir's role before or after at Microsoft.
Failed - because WMA/WMP is freeware, no real audio editing software to speak of, the lowest layer of Windows Audio was already well established before Amir took sail of that boat, Zune, and others failed against the iPod. Today we have lots of DAPs that are better than the iPod. It's about innovation....and being able to get the attention of a larger audience.
@kenjit
- This guy sent me a message on here:
"Why don't you invent your own speakers and sell them?"
Wow, what a compliment. I sure do have quite a bit of audio knowledge. But you know what? I'm not in competition with anyone; nor do I have grandiose narcissism like @amir_asr .
Judging from how many discussions were started by @kenjit about speakers, perhaps he should give it a go first. Only because I am not qualified to do so. I can certainly do my best to help tune the final result as per your standard of sound quality to the masses, or even tell you if they're accurate / neutral / uncolored etc. Unlike folks at ASR, I know my limits and stay within them. I don't try to pretend to be something I'm not.
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This is from another post that I wrote:
@amir_asr @kenjit
I made sure you two lovebirds were on the same line....so as to be together.
I have been disappointed my so many of the top-measuring audio electronics featured on that website..! To such an extent that I sold all of them!! From DACs, to headphone amplifiers, to USB C dongles for android smartphones that claim better performance on paper than any high-end stand-alone DAC. You would think that Hollywood studios, Sony Music Studios, and other big players in industry would be using or recommending ASR gear by now...
High-end audio and the pro audio/live sound industries should have died off since the inception and frequently-posted publications on ASR - The industry as a whole has not adapted; and there are a multitude of reasons why they haven’t.
Products from those brands (You know who they are) are all "built to a cost" meaning that costs savings was all-important in terms of the quality of internal parts, design/implementation of DAC chips, the use of OP amps rather than discrete or custom types of FETs, poor quality casework that is feather-light and does not damp the internals properly, soldered-on inputs/outputs, vertical-chip capacitors that are computer-grade, rather than audio grade and therefore much cheaper to buy in bulk, the use of axial or radial capacitors rather than snap-in, the lack of ceramic saftey capacitors, no saftey resistors, and even the total absence of sacrificial fuses that blow in the event of a malfunction; to protect the inputs/outputs, reactive load (speakers, headphones), and the circuit itself. I could go on and on... lol
It is so easy to buy the latest DAC chip in bulk, slap it on a PCB, include a cheap crystal oscillator at 10 cents a piece, and have output. Therefore, the measurements are often not the total sum of parts inside the electronics, but the DAC chip at the engineering standard itself. And not all DAC chips are created equal. The easier it is to implement/ it can withstand all kinds of substandard parts tolerances and temperature variations/ the worse it will sound. Rather than have all parts when, which measured, do not vary wildly and will compliment eachother to create a high-performace unit.
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The definition of "subjective" is misconstrued in audio. Intellectual honesty is required to find out the truth.
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@bigtwin
I sent @amir_asr a message on here. Not sure if he saw it or had time to read it. No response yet.
Part of the message i wrote with the headline "Live and Let Live" - straight from the web: you should tolerate the opinions and behavior of others so that they will similarly tolerate your own. Makes sense, right?
I said to him:
What often gets you trouble on virtually every forum (other than ASR) is you always wanting to be right, telling others they are wrong, or interjecting your beliefs upon others who are not interested. I have learned that "Live and Let Live" is a good way to go about conversing on forums. For example, I recently saw a post about an OP wanting to maybe buy a brand-i-don't-like product. I hate the brand and the low-quality etc. it's a toy to me. Not audio equipment for me. I didn't tell the OP that...because I know that perhaps they will like it. And I'd rather not interfere...
Not my money to spend. If someone else is happy with an audio product, then sure, i'm happy for them. Whatever.
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Man, that is a meanspirited thing to say. Are you this way in real life? Someone disagrees with your audio views and you get personal this way?
That aside, I am sure there are executives or managers with better credentials and notoriety than me. I am however, proud of the accomplishments of my teams and my personal contributions to many of them. Here are some examples:
1. Technologies developed in my team ship in billions of devices a year. Not millions but billions. Every few weeks I run into specs of a device that has technology from my team in all manner of products and software.
2. Our video technology is mandatory in Blu-ray format and was responsible for advancement of competing standards to catch up to same. Without our involvement, Blu-ray format would have only supported the ancient but expensive (see below) MPEG-2 video codec.
3. We worked hard to make the cost of your AV products lower. While royalties for MPEG-2 video codec was $2.50 per device with no cap, we pushed and achieved cost of less than 50 cents with caps for advanced codecs such as H.264.
4. Speaker of H.264 and other ITU/MPEG standards, we chaired the development of them at those organizations.
5. I came to Microsoft as part of an acquisition of our start up where we significantly innovated in delivery of video on the Internet. We managed to do this by inventing such as schemes as MBR: multibitrate Audio/video. Every video you watch on the web today uses the same scheme as you see the quality go up and down based on your connection speed.
6. Technologies developed by my team have been recognized by no less than three Emmy awards. The first two predate the Internet as we know it today but the last one is well documented (for advancements in delivery of video on the Internet). Here is a picture of me holding the statue:
😎
Sorry Amir. You helped me prove my point by providing more details!
Am I like this in real life? Sometimes. Not always!
All of that would have still been possible without you leading it, or your team.
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