Musical Fidelity kw DM 25 Transport and DAC

Hi, does anybody have any experience with the Musical Fidelity kw DM 25 Transport and DAC?

I have heard it during HiFi Show in London this past October.

One of the worst sounds of the show. With SF Guarnieri Homage, the sound was thin and bright.
I did some shows for MF, they can make good cd players, but MF is not capable of making impressive players. I comparred many MF players with all kinds of Meridian players. When you compare them you know Meridian can make much better cd players than MF can.
I have one. It is superb beyond anything I have ever heard before. I use it with my kW500 amplifier and hear detail with utmost power yet delicacy. There is one bug which has been fixed under warranty - the Philips laser mechanism sometimes objects to dual-layer SACD/CD. There is a Philips-supplied upgrade which MF now use which solves the problem.
I replaced a 6 yr old ARCAM FMJ CD 23 with the MF kw 25 duo nearly 6 months back. While the Arcam FMJ was a solid performer,the MF 25 is in an altoghter different league. Is the MF 25 the best cd playback out there ? Probably not.Given the limited audio choices available to an audiophile in India the MF represents a great buy judged by the yardstick of purchaser happiness. In the context of an all tube/ESL system still in the infant stages of break in, the MF 25 duo is a superb performer. The rest of the gear : Quad 2905s, CJ CT5 preamp, CJ LP70S poweramp, Hydra 6 power conditioner, MBL audio rack and all Cardas cables ( Golden Ref/Golden Cross),Clearaudio Emotion TT with a Project Phono box as phono preamp.I can detail several ways IMHO how the MF, to my ears, is a superior performer to the Arcam eg retreival of detail. In the Natalie Merchant Live concert cd(forget the name)there is a long passage of monologue(Spanish ??) at the end of the cd which I heard for the first time thru the MF.I have owned the cd for nearly 4 years !!My earlier gear while lacking the finesse and musicality of the present system was fairly respectable in its own right eg Bryston 14 BST, B&W CDM 9NT and later ML Odssey etc. I can go on about the delicacy of the upper registers, the bass slam, the overall musicality of the player but I would do less justice tnan the Stereophile review of July 2006, which I agree with.
If you have the good fortune and the circumstances to review every or most highend players out there , then choose what sounds sweetest to your ears but be sure to include the the MF in your short list of must hear demos.
just ignore what elberoth2 said about it. This guy is anti M.F. type of person. I know his posts from other forums. KW DM25 is a good value for money product.
I'm curious what kind of SOTA source components have you compared your MF DAC/CDT to, to clam that "KW DM25 is a good value for money product".

Are you talking about your budget Arcam CDP ? Just curious.
I have never ever had any cd player which was less than 2000 GBP, so, you know what I have, had from other forums that I don't need to name them past you argued how Musical Fidelity gear bad... now I have 2 systems still using kw dm25, kw 500 despite my new setup(Boulder,Pass Labs,) still enjoy Kw 500 and Kw Dm25 setup.
For redbook cd replay Kw Dm25 is quite sufficient if it is used in good systems. Today Michael Fremer of stereophile is also using kw dm25 even his speakers retails moreless 40.000 USD (Wilson Maxx2)
Poor elberoth2....what Musical Fidelity has done such a bad thing to you? Share with us!
Michalson killed my doughter, LOL.

Seriously though - I have absolutely no problems with MF, other than the fact that their gear is - in general - poorely engineered and sounds medicore at best.

I really wish MF spend as much money on the design of their products as they do on marketing.

A close friend of mine, demoed the kw DM25 alongside the similarly priced EMM Labs CDSD and Acoustic Arts players and the both wiped the floor with MF, big time. The performance difference was HUGE.

I have only heard the kw DM25 at show conditions, twice, and each time MF room got my vote for the worst sound of the show.

BTW - Mr. Fremer can be hardly regarded as digital expert.

To get the maximum performace out of the current 6112 tube based MF gear. There are NOS alternatives to the 80's vintage stock Philips tube. The 6112 was designed by Sylvania and I have a 1960's NOS pair in my unit. NOS 6112 may also be found branded Raytheon and General Electric. However, I believe that the OEM on all 6112 tubes is Sylvania. I have also seen NOS 6112 tubes with standard pins (not flying leads) I own a MF A5 cd player and find it quite involving, especially with the NOS tubes. I know of no other player in this price range that performs at a higher level. In the recent past I owned Esoteric DV-50, Marantz SA11-S1, ARC CD3MK2, Krell SACD Standard, CARY 303-300 a loner Wadia 800. The MF is the one that is still here....I must be deaf???

If M.F. doesn't fit into your taste, don't make further comments, don't insult M.F. owners. Have respect others systems and tastes. However, speaking with you like speaking like ''wall''. You will do the same in this forum and others as well. I thank god that I don't see you in marine aquarium (reef) forums. At least I can enjoy elberoth2 free atmosphere:)))
Enjoy with your system, don't bother us please.

I have just noticed, that this is your first post on Audiogon.

You prolly do not know then, that one of the biggest AudiogoN's assets, is freedom of speech. Everyone can express his opinions on any given product.

Kjgp asked about opinions, and I gave him mine. To make it complete, I even gave him details where I have heard it and how did it sound to my ears.

If you feel compelled to attack everyone who dares to have different opinion than you do, you should rather go back to your marine forums.
I have seen your posts about M.F. gear a lot. You always commented bad on M.F. even you had never had one. If you knew a bit about this business, you shouldn't have said ''sounded thin and bright to my ears'' upssss. what a sharp ear you have...under show conditions your razor sharp ears found out kw dm25's trick. answer these questions please: 1)since when Sonus Faber range sound bright and thin?
2) Technically justify that front end of a system determines the final output quality?
3) how come amplifiers, cables, speakers, power treatment pruducts, room acoustics, size.......plays secondary role in a setup?
4) Are we paid by Musical Fidelity? in other words we make our living with promoting kw dm25? (we are: M.T. , Michael Fremer, Ken Kessler,the guys just positively recommended above, John Atkinson who gave ''A'' put kwdm25 in recommended comp.
5) how do you name your school of view of Hi-End components? because you just brought 2.dimension to Hi-End.

Too much freedom sometimes kill the cat.
For the comment that MF products are poorly engineered, could you give a specific example or two of this poor engineering? zmy experience is quite the opposite.
LOL, you learn new things everyday.

Since I just been officially labelled "Musical Fidelity hater", I think I have to go back and start some MF hate threads.

I confess, that in my 300+ posts on Audiogon, I have only once mentioned MF (in this thread), but from now on, as an official MF hater, I promise to do better !

I feel I must come to Elberoth2's defense. He was very specific in that he said he heard it at a HiFi show in London. I heard a similar setup at Rocky Mountain Audiofest last year and came to the same conclusion as did my mother who has better ears than I do. We lasted about 5 minutes in the room as the system was bright even with the SF speakers.

KW Pre
KW 750 Amp.
KW Transport
KW Dac
Audioquest cabeling throught.
SF Amati

Elberoth, After doing some looking I don't think you have bashed MF before as Mert has said. But in his defence I spent 2 hours with the above system minus the transport in the dealer show room and it was like wow night and day difference. Now this show room was designed by Rives and is a spectactular place to listen to a system. Oh the transport was a theta data basic II sound familar. I was comparing my Tri-Vista DAC to the KW DAC.

For the comparison the same cables were used, actually swaped between units for the test except for the power cables. Power cable for the KW DAC was stock. Power cable for the TriVista was a Audio Magic Extream Master. The digital IC was Synergistic Research Digital Corridor Phase II active. The IC was a SR Kalidiscope Phase I Active. The conclusion on my part was the KW was a touch and I mean a touch brighter than the TriVista. In all other respects they were equal. Now in the salesman's conclusion the bass of the KW was a little looser than the TriVista.

Unfortunitally due to some technical difficulties we were unable to put the KW Transport to the test VS the Theta.

Elberoth2 as far as MF being porely engineered I would disagree. After talking with Steve Nugent about the Tri-Vista CDP. It is not a bad player yes it can be improved with mods but most players can.

Ok that is enough for the night.
elbe -1
arti +1
Still no response as to examples of how MF products are poorly engineered. I guess "wiped the floor, big time" is indicative of the reliability of that opinion.
Tlday - I would rather keep my inside information for myself. I have already been attacked on this forum for disclosing Shunyata secrets (or more precise: things that Shunyata didn't want to see the lights of day) that ended with the whole thread deletion.

BTW - do you happen to post in other threads that are not dedicated to MF gear as well ? I have looked through your "answers" and in 24 out of 27 posts in the Amp/Preamp section you HAPPEN mention MF gear.

Coincidence ? I do not think so.
I just installed my KW DM25 about a week ago and so far very pleased with it. It was a warranty replacement (plus $900 and S&H) for my Tri Vista Sacd player that became unusable due to Phillps no longer supplying replacement transports. I really havn't tweaked it out yet with cables and so forth, but can tell you that with just 15 hours of burn-in it does sound better than the Tri-Vista. I know I will get spoiled with it's terrific sound after I get tuned the way I want.
before I bought mine, I had Accuphase Dp-67 and M.F. X series full stack. Kw Dm25 outperformed all. It is even better than Kw Sacd player.(redbook mode)
I avtually owned the MF KW DM25 Transport and DAC. It sells around 6000 euro in Europe. It played fine on low volumes but when playing louder it was realy nervous sounding.

I think this is one of the lousiest CD players in this price range. They price it like a highend CD player but it is average at best. My old Meridian 508-24 played much better.

I compared it next to a Wadia 581, Krell KPS28C and a Audio Research CD7. They all completely wiped the floor with the MF combo. The difference was not subtle, it was HUGE.

I suggest you either buy a cheaper CD player or save a little bit more to buy a real highend cd player.

I agree with markmccartyco.
I've had the KW dm25 transport and dac system since 1997. And it's still a great sounding combination! I'm using the tube section rather then the solid state!
Correction 2007 not 1997...........
Are there owners who use other AES/EBU cables then the standard MF cables between the DAC and transport?
You can only connect the dac/transport with XLR cables. A long time ago I replaced the standard MF cables with Cardas Golden Reference. Huge difference.
For all the MF naysayers on this thread, my MF kW 25 dac +transport has been in my system for 8+ years and I can't see myself replacing it. It's that good.
In the interest of full disclosure : it's a predominantly vinyl system

There is no such word as "prolly." The word is "probably." You wrote that in 2007. There is no telling how many times you have used that term in the last nine years. At least, now you know! Also, don't try correcting me, for correcting you. Prolly is not a word on any planet we recognize.

Just my .02 I own a Musical Fidelity M6si and am very happy with the unit. It does exude quality and prior to purchasing I did a direct comparison to Krell Vanguard and preferred the MF. I cannot speak to their CD players / Transports as I haven't listened to it or seen it in person but can draw an inference as to the quality and would have to believe it is well built and great sounding. I own/use an Emotiva ERC-3. Considerably less money nevertheless a quality unit in its own right. Back to Musical Fidelity it would be great if they had a customer forum for these and other threads.
A quick update. I am approaching 9+ years with my MF combo. With new power chords from Shunyata, fresh I/c cables from Audiomica, Poland my cdp is sounding sublime. Only 10% of my listening is digital