Mirage M1 or M3 vs M1Si or M3Si Series


I'm the recent proud owner of a set of well acred for original M1's but curious to know from, MxSi owners what the differences are sonically between these 2 fine sets of Audio design and manufacturing prowess.
jgwilson
Actually, the si versions are much better.The tweeter and mids are where the improvement occured. A lot of fussing re. placement pays off.If you have the manual, their recommendations are spot on. 10years ago when a friend and I had similar (he had plain 1s;I had 3sis)we both had almost the same gear and ics. He was always jealous. Your old style can not be upgraded to si status.
also the crossover for the Si was biwire capable the original didn't have this feature
Humm, not sure on these replies, let me reiterate, I am not sure. I was 'told', way back when, it was just a tweeter change. Furthermore, I owned a pair of M3 speakers, not si versions, and they were biwire speakers.
ok clarification here the original M1 was single wire only believe the biwire capability was an available option. then later all M1's started being produced with biwire capability standard this probably was the same with the M3 also. All Si models had the tweeter and crossover upgrades and biwire capability.
THIS IS NO BS! Way back when Chicago hosted the CES show I had a conversation with Mr. Paisley who was one of those responsible for the design of the original M1. We talked candidly about the M1 (which I owned at the time) and the soon to be released M1Si. He was very straight forward answering my questions. He explained that when they came up with the idea of the M1 it was meant to be a flagship type product which they planned to sell in very limited numbers ("a few hundred per year"). To their surprise, demand for M1's was huge and the current production could not keep up. The tweeter for example, was a custom unit, hand tweeked with tight tolerances. The crossover was also hand tweeked to each tweeter to get the best sound. When demand grew, things would have to change so the production could keep pace. The real reason for the tweeter upgrades was to speed production. The new tweeter had tolerances that allowed it to be used with no hand tweeking involved-and the "new" crossover changes were implemented to work with the new tweeter parameters. I never heard the M1Si in a side by side comparison with my M1's so I cannot give you a comment on any specific sonic differences. I can say however that I never felt the need to upgrade to the M1Si even after hearing them several times. I ultimately moved on to 2-way stand mounted speakers and do not miss the Mirage bi-polar sound. My M1's, by the way, were low serial numbered and were bi-wireable.
I have
2 pair of M1si's
1 pair of M1's
and 2 pair of M3si's
I'd like to sell the M1's & 1 pair of M1si's
the M3si's are in my home theater system & the other pair of M1si's are in my audio setup. I live in california (bay area)
so local pick up would be preferred since they weigh alot.
if you want pro shipping that could be arranged.
email - [email protected]
So, in light of this discussion does anyone know if it is advisable to replace blown M1 tweeters with M1-si tweeters since I can't source M1 tweeters? Sounds to me like the si tweeters needed LESS hand tweaking (i.e. they had tighter manufacturing specs). I know the crossover points changed between the two models but that may be moot, if the tweeters were essentially identical in output and frq response in the required range.

Any advice about dealing with 2 defunct M1 tweets appreciated.
The best thing you can do is to have the original tweeters rebuilt or find used ones. Though if you had to go with something else I would think that M1si tweeters would be the best alternative to any other tweeters out there.
I recently heard M1 in a small room (with NAD M3) of 170 sq feet - it was the best sound I have heard. Amazing bass, no sweet spot (music was 'everywhere') and it seemed like live show just in the room. Amazing. 

Can anyone please tell me if indeed M1si was inferior model (to make the manufacturing process quicker) and more mass produced in comparison to M1 please? (especially when someone has heard them side by side or even owned both at the same time! That would be awesome). 

I am asking as......I want to buy those Mirage speakers now hehe (either M1 or M3) but dunno if I 'have to look only for original M1' or if I'm going to get the same awesome sound also with M1si. 

thanks

ps. Also, I understand that in both M1 and M1si the mids and woofers had foam chassis which requires rebuilding over time as the foam deteriorates?
Is it hard to rebuild or pain in the ass and hard to find people doing that kind of work?
I own a pair of M5si, two pairs of M3si and one pair of M1si.  I had a pair of M5, which I sold to my neighbor.

Another forum member messaged me and asked me about the differences, so here was my reply:

They are all similar in the midrange and highs, the bass is where they all differ. Let me start with the Mirage basics in the line; I once had some Mirage M5's as well. They had the 3/4" soft-done tweeter. The si series has the 1" titanium dome tweeter. Some will tell you the older soft tweeter is best (hand matched, etc.) but I MUCH prefer the si series tweeter. It has more clarity and detail to my ears.

Concerning the M5si: The biggest difference (compared to M3 and M1) is that the M5si lacks a large woofer or woofers. It's biggest drive is a a pair of 6 (or maybe 6.5") drivers. For that reason, I always like to pair them with a good, fast subwoofer. It images almost as well as the other (M3si/M1si) speakers if you put the sub right next to the cabinet, but it doesn't "blend" as well as the M3si or M1si since they have built in woofers and you can cross them over with a sub (if desired) at a lower frequency (50 or 60 Hz) than with the M5si, where you must cross it over at around 80- Hz. M5si's have no foam surrounds; they are neoprene so you never have to worry about deterioration.

The M3si's are amazing. I own two pairs. The problem with the M3si's as well as the M1si's is the midrange...it has a foam surround, which deteriorates and falls apart over time. I installed new surrounds on BOTH my M3si pairs, and it made a huge difference, as the old surrounds were shot and were not suspending the midrange properly. Once I fixed the surrounds, the speakers became amazing. My M1si surrounds are still good, but I will replace them soon, as they are getting quite soft.  It is not hard to do if you are mechanically inclined and can solder, and the surrounds are easily available on the internet.  You can also hjave them "professionally" re-done.

 The mid and upper frequencies in the M3si and the M1si are very similar, as the tweeters and midranges are identical.

The difference is in the bass and how it blends. The M3si has a single 10" woofer on the front of the cabinet and the M1si has a pair of woofers, one front and one rear, but they are 8" woofers. If you do the math on the surface area of the woofers, you get 78.5" for a single 10" woofer and 50.26" for each 8" woofer (100.5" total since each M1si has two), so the M1si has 22" more woofer surface area. The M1si plays flat (within 2dB) down to 25 Hz. The M3si plays flat down to 30Hz. The M1si does this by using both a larger cabinet as well as the increased surface area.

So...on to listening. Can you hear the difference? Yes you can. The M1si plays deeper and is tighter than the M3si, and your ears can hear that difference. That also makes sense because the 8" woofers are smaller and therefore faster. With that stated, the M3si, with its larger, single woofer, almost seems to my ears to accentuate the bass a bit more; I would not really call it "boomy", but it is not as tight and "sterile accurate" as compared to the M1si. I can see how some people's ears might actually like the M3si bass better, even though it does not play as deep and is not as tight and accurate. I like them all. Back when they were new, I can imagine a person listening to both and making the decision that they like the M3si bass as much (or even more) than the M1si, and also - knowing that they are cheaper - deciding that they are the best value. With that stated, the M1si's are so amazingly accurate, tight, detailed, and pleasant to listen to...and they play deeper, so for very detailed music like classical, vocal, opera, spanish guitar, jazz and other detailed music I would give the edge to the M1-si's over the M3si's. . For rock and roll, I think the M3si's are excellent, and in fact they excel in the other genres I mentioned as well, but a slight edge goes to the M1si's in all forms of music in my opinion. They are simply more accurate and detailed due to the smaller, dual woofers and bigger bass surface area of the drivers, which is what my ears prefer.

The M1si's are closer to a "full range" speaker than the M3si's are. I think rock requires a subwoofer with the M3si's...and in full disclosure, I run a pair of 1000 watt (each) 15" subwoofers crossed over at 50 Hz as I like my music full range with a very deep bottom end. If you get a chance to buy any of them at the right price, I say go for it. They are not fatiguing at all. In fact, for extended listening, I prefer them to my Goldenear Triton Ones. They are not as detailed in the highs as the GE's which are almost "clinical" in nature. Modern (lousy, compressed) recordings are terrible in the Golden Ears as they fatigue my ears, but the bipolar effect of the Mirages actually makes some not-so-good recordings sound tolerable. I hope that helps.
dimora,
Your input is HUGELY appreciated, many many many thanks!!!!!!!
Hello folks. Nice post and cool to learn that peeps around the world still appreciate these magnificent speakers - The Mx/MxSi is a bargin and compared to what is around today in the High End segment these speakers is among up there and beats many costly designs by big margins. I'm a happy owner of a set M7Si and is now about to upgrade to a set M3Si. That I look forward to. These models is har to find in EU.
I wondering if there is anyone here who by any chance has experience with crossover upgrades of M7Si/M3Si and have a crossover diagram they want to share? Mirage use some average consumer caps in series with the mid/tweeter - maybe there is some more quality to get from a upgrade? Kind regardsMik